KJV-Onlyism Commentary

[michelle]

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Originally posted by michelle:
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Either way, as it has been pointed out to you (apparently countless of times), even if the preservation referred to the Word, it would refer to the Word in the Hebrew language, not in the 17th century English language. Your argument is illogical.
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Please show me where the scriptures indicate this? Am I a faithful believer in Christ Jesus my Lord and Saviour? Are you? Are others? Then this promise applies to us. Not just and only Hebrew and Greek speaking faithful people.

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I have already showed you this in Scripture. I have faithfully expounded to you 2Peter 1:21 and 2Timothy 3:16 many times already. These Scriptures plainly teach that God inspired (breathed into) the words of the prophets and the apostles, and only the words of the prophets and the apostles, and no one else. That means that inspiration is limited to the original Greek and Hebrew autographs of the Apostles and prophets. God never promised to inspire the words of any other person, such as a copyist or a translator. You have to provide that evidence to me.
DHK
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What does the inspiration have to do with preservation being spoken of above? Did I say anything about inspiration in my reply to you? I responded to your comment on preservation. God promised to preserve His pure words for the faithful. I am one of those faithful. Then you bring up inspiration. I wasn't talking about inspiration. I was talking about the preservation of God's inspired words, carried over into my language.

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by michelle:
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Revelation 22
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
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I guess many of us who do not know Hebrew and Greek are in big trouble when this day comes, since God only promised to preserve his pure words in Hebrew and Greek. Generations of English speaking people, even until this very day have only known, believed, lived, and taught many of those things many claim today are in error in our scriptures and lack knowledge or ability to learn the pure words of God. Since God cannot provide His words error free in our language, many of us are in trouble and danger of judgement.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

Since I believe that the New Testament is preserved in the textus receptus, from which the KJV is taken from your argument holds no water with me. I also oppose most modern versions, so you are not making any headway here. The Greek New Testament that I use has the same number of verses as the King James Bible does. The one is translated from the other. The Bible commands us to read it. The problem comes in understanding. Understanding is lost in translation. When understnading is lost in translation you must go back to the original language to find out what the word is being referred to.

What is a unicorn? How do you know?
DHK

 

[michelle]

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Since I believe that the New Testament is preserved in the textus receptus, from which the KJV is taken from your argument holds no water with me. I also oppose most modern versions, so you are not making any headway here. The Greek New Testament that I use has the same number of verses as the King James Bible does. The one is translated from the other. The Bible commands us to read it. The problem comes in understanding. Understanding is lost in translation. When understnading is lost in translation you must go back to the original language to find out what the word is being referred to.

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True understanding does not come of our own selves. True understanding of the scriptures comes from the Holy Spirit of God.

John 10

4. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6. This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7. Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15. As the Father knoweth me, even so I know the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
19. There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
20. And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
21. Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
22. And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30. I and my Father are one.


John 14

12. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15. If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 16

1. These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
4. But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
5. But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?
6. But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
7. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9. Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10. Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11. Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
16. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.


Ephesians 1

6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8. Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9. Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


All these apply to God's people. Not just Hebrew and Greek speaking people.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Michael52]

Originally posted by michelle:
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Either way, as it has been pointed out to you (apparently countless of times), even if the preservation referred to the Word, it would refer to the Word in the Hebrew language, not in the 17th century English language. Your argument is illogical.
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Please show me where the scriptures indicate this? Am I a faithful believer in Christ Jesus my Lord and Saviour? Are you? Are others? Then this promise applies to us. Not just and only Hebrew and Greek speaking faithful people.
...

michelle

Yes, the promise applies to us (regardless of whether one interprets it to be preservation ofpeople or words). The promises also applied to the Hebrews who were the first to read Psalms 12. What they read, was written in Hebrew. If the promise of preservation was not fulfilled until it was written in English, then the inital promise was UNTRUE! It did not even EXIST in English at that time. For someting to be preserved, it must be preserved from the time of it's initial existence. Thus, the truth of Psalm 12 is preserved in Hebrew and is STILL preserved in Hebrew! If it is not then preservation has NO MEANING!

It is to the glory of the Lord that we may read this preserved truth in our English versions today, despite our imperfect stewardship of God's Holy written Word!

Sister michelle, I pray that the Lord of truth will open your mind to this obvious fact!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by michelle:

True understanding does not come of our own selves. True understanding of the scriptures comes from the Holy Spirit of God.

All these apply to God's people. Not just Hebrew and Greek speaking people.

And this is why you cannot answer or deliberately avoid answering a simple question.

What is a unicorn (in the KJV)? And how do you know?

Job 39:9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
DHK

 

[michelle]

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Yes, the promise applies to us (regardless of whether one interprets it to be preservation ofpeople or words). The promises also applied to the Hebrews who were the first to read Psalms 12. What they read, was written in Hebrew. If the promise of preservation was not fulfilled until it was written in English, then the inital promise was UNTRUE! It did not even EXIST in English at that time. For someting to be preserved, it must be preserved from the time of it's initial existence. Thus, the truth of Psalm 12 is preserved in Hebrew and is STILL preserved in Hebrew! If it is not then preservation has NO MEANING!
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I never said it wasn't preserved in Hebrew and Greek today. I however, have said, I do not need to know, nor does anyone else need to know these dead languages, as they are also preserved for us in our own language. Many are telling me, and others that we do not have the scriptures in our own language error free. This is untrue and a lie. In order to prove this false assumption that we do not, nor can have the scriptures error free, they must then hide behind these dead languages (which common folk do not have understanding in), in order to go to such lengths as this. This seems to me, to be denying the power and providence of God concerning his words of truth, and care and concern for the believer. What many are sadly doing to many others today, is sowing doubt of the assuredness we have in the scriptures God provided for us, causing us to believe there are errors, and to rely upon thier own interpretations of what these dead languages mean. This is unacceptable to me, and is cause for many to be putting themselves in not only the position of doubting the scriptures, but to also be deceieved.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by michelle:

I never said it wasn't preserved in Hebrew and Greek today. I however, have said, I do not need to know, nor does anyone else need to know these dead languages, as they are also preserved for us in our own language. Many are telling me, and others that we do not have the scriptures in our own language error free. This is untrue and a lie. In order to prove this false assumption that we do not, nor can have the scriptures error free, they must then hide behind these dead languages (which common folk do not have understanding in), in order to go to such lengths as this. This seems to me, to be denying the power and providence of God concerning his words of truth, and care and concern for the believer. What many are sadly doing to many others today, is sowing doubt of the assuredness we have in the scriptures God provided for us, causing us to believe there are errors, and to rely upon thier own interpretations of what these dead languages mean. This is unacceptable to me, and is cause for many to be putting themselves in not only the position of doubting the scriptures, but to also be deceieved.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

Who is the one hiding behind a language? How ironic! It seems like you are hiding behind a curtain of ignorance. You have your head stuck in the sand, do not want to study, say 'the KJV was good enough for "PAUL" and therefore good enough for me.' That is the mentality that comes across.

You talk about dead men and dead languages. It is almost as if you commit blasphemy. Do you not understand that God breathed the very breath of life into the words of those apostles and prophets, and they wrote them down on those manuscripts. Now you call them dead, when God calls them "quick (alive) and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword" It is the living Word of God...able to convert the soul. You relegate it to the dead, the non-living. Christ, the living Word--dead? That is blasphemy. The words of the apostles and prophets are not dead! They are the very words of God. No other recorded words are. That is what inspiration is. God breathed into those words life, those exact words that came from the apostles and prophets--not the copies, not the translators. Don't refer to them as dead.

The translation is not error free. It is full of errors, usually none so bad that it will affect any doctrine, but it will affect our understanding of the Bible. So why do you not answer my question. You can't even understand your own Bible because it is written in the KJV! Is that correct?

What is a unicorn? And how do you know?
DHK

 

[Michael52]

Originally posted by michelle:
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I however, have said, I do not need to know, nor does anyone else need to know these dead languages, as they are also preserved for us in our own language. ...

If no one needs to know these "dead" languages, then how did anyone ever translate the Bible into English so that it is now preserved for us in our own language (ie English)?

 

[steaver]

quote:
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Originally posted by steaver:
Since the MVs have challenged the KJB, it seems highly suspect for the common Christian to believe they are from the Lord. This has no "final authorative" support,it is purely a discernment issue.
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I.e. it is
entirely your opinion and nothing more.

Isn't that what I said? Discernment issue?

BTW, i don't see MVs as challenging
the KJB but supplimenting them. God
has preserved His written word in the
MVs (individually and collectively).

"it is entirely your opinion and nothing more" Correct?

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

Hi Clint, you said.......

God preserves His word through the vehicle of men.

You have proved this through scripture and I agree.

Can you tell me why you believe that "inspiration" by God is perfect, but "preservation" by God is imperfect? Take in account that God has performed both task through fallible men. Also take into account that both originate from a Perfect Source. God inspired, God preserved. I would like to know how God's "inspiration" cannot be overthrown by fallible men and the word stays perfect, yet God's "preservation" can be overthrown by fallible men and becomes less than perfect?

I'm just trying to understand why you believe one is perfect and one is not if they both come forth from the same source and fallible men are the vehicle by which they both come forth.

God Bless!

 

[Ed Edwards]

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That segement is at:
#2 KJV-Onlyism Commentary

Join us there for continued discussion of
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