• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

KJV verses removed from newer bibles

Lewis HB

New Member
This is just a very few of them... the most famous is Acts 8 37 which is omited in all modern bibles to try to show that getting baptized saves a person
8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

and for a few others see
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Lewis,

I wish you well on your thread. But I can say from experience that this subject, more than almost any other here on this forum, has a much greater opposition attached to it than may seem to be present on the surface. I won't get into details, but I will say that most who post here, are of the opposite persuasion.


May God bless you.
 
Last edited:

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This is just a very few of them... the most famous is Acts 8 37 which is omited in all modern bibles to try to show that getting baptized saves a person
8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
What is your standard for saying that verses are omitted or removed? A Bible translation is not the standard and authority above the preserved Scriptures in the original languages. It is incorrect reasoning to assume the KJV to be the standard by use of the fallacy of begging the question. Would you go by the standard of the majority of preserved Greek New Testament manuscript copies?

Do you know that the KJV adds some verses that were not found in Tyndale's New Testament and the 1537 Matthew's Bible? Some pre-1611 English Bibles such as Tyndale’s New Testament and Matthew’s Bible did not have three whole verses (Mark 11:26, Luke 17:36, Revelation 21:26) because those verses were not in the editions of the Greek text of Erasmus.

Do you know that the KJV omits at least three whole verses in one Psalm that are found in the 1535 Coverdale's Bible, the 1539 Great Bible, and the 1602 edition of the Bishops' Bible?

Jan Krans asserted: “In the case of Acts Erasmus initially supposed that the Greek manuscripts he consulted suffered from omissions, while later, having consulted more sources, he came to doubt the Vulgate additions (Acts 8:37; 9:5-6; 10:6; 14:7; 23:25; 24:6-7)” (Beyond What Is Written, p. 61, footnote 36). Jan Krans noted: “A key element in the understanding of Erasmus’ conjectural emendation are the many instances in which he inferred Greek readings on the basis of the Latin Vulgate [of Jerome]” (p. 11). After including Acts 8:37 in his list of Latin Vulgate readings followed by Erasmus, KJV defender Edward F. Hills maintained that “in his notes Erasmus says that he took this reading [Acts 8:37] from the margin of [manuscript] 4ap” (KJV Defended, pp. 200-201; Text, p. 337).

It can be properly and legitimately concluded from the Scriptures that God has not directly spoken or breathed out words added by men and that any words omitted by copiers should be restored (Deut. 4:2, Deut. 12:32, Prov. 30:6, Prov. 30:6, Rev. 22:18). According to clear scriptural truth, words added by men cannot soundly be considered words given by inspiration of God. According to these scriptural truths, adding words would be just as wrong as omitting words.

How would it be sound, scriptural reasoning to assume by the fallacy of begging the question that words or verses are supposedly omitted?
 
Last edited:

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
English Bible translations such as the 1833 Webster’s Bible, the 1842 revision of the KJV by Baptists, the 1962 Teen-age Version of the Holy Bible by Jay Green, the 1982 NKJV, the 1986 Literal Translation in The Interlinear Bible, the 1990 Modern King James Version, the 1994 21st Century King James Version, the 1998 Third Millennium Bible, the King James 2000 Version, 2000/2013 Jubilee Bible, 2006 New Authorized Version—AV7 NT, the 2010 KJ3 Literal Translation, the 2014 Modern English Version, the 2022 Simplified KJV, Nick Sayers’ 2023 King James Version New Testament, and the 2024 edition of the Modern English Bible can be considered as being based on the same basic multiple original-language texts of Scripture as the KJV, and these English Bibles do not remove any verses found in the KJV.
 

Lewis HB

New Member
Thankyou Dave. I had not intended to go cause a sensation :) However, the question was asked and so I briefly
and calmly :) answered it. I really do understand that others will have other points of view. That said, having answered,
can have little more to say. After all, words do matter. The reason why we no longer have the origional manuscripts is that the Roman church
savagely burned them and the people who taught biblical truth for 1700 years. There has always been a group of believers who refused to go along with the Roman churches errors and paganism. They have fellowshipped under several different names and dreadful persecution over 2000 years. I reccomend the booklet "The trail of blood" available from one ministry online. Thankyou all, Lewis
 

Conan

Well-Known Member
● Acts 8:37 is only supported by about 15% of the Greek manuscripts of Acts, but it was used by Irenaeus (in Book 3, 12:8 of Against Heresies, written c. 180, long before the earliest existing manuscript of this part of Acts was made), by Cyprian (in the 200s, in Book Three of his Testimonies, Treatise 12, chapter 43), by Pontus the Deacon (in the mid-200s), by Pacian of Barcelona (late 300s), and by Augustine (early 400s); it is also in the Coptic (Egyptian) manuscript known as the Glazier Codex (made in the 400s or 500s
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
After all, words do matter.
Do you apply your own stated measure/standard consistently and justly including to the KJV?

According to the makers of the KJV themselves in some of their marginal notes in the 1611 edition, they omitted giving any English word/rendering for many original-language words of Scripture.

Here are a couple examples to see if you really believe that all words do matter and if you practice what you preach. One or more of the editions of the word of God translated into English before 1611 had the omitted words and some post-1611 English translations have them while the KJV omits them.



1 Kings 16:12 [1611 margin—“Heb. by the hand of”]

by the hand of Jehu the Prophet [1560 Geneva Bible; 1602 Bishops’ Bible]

by Jehu the prophet [1611 KJV]

by the hand of Jehu the prophet [YLT] [Literal Translation] [KJ3] [LSV]



1 Kings 17:16 [1611 margin—“Heb. by the hand of”]

by the hand of Elia [1540 Great Bible]

by the hand of Eliah [1560 Geneva Bible]

by the hand of Elias [1602 Bishops’ Bible]

by Elijah [1611 KJV]

by the hand of Elijah [YLT] [Literal Translation] [KJ3] [LSV]


Do you condemn the makers of the KJV for omitting words or do you reveal that you do not practice consistently what you preach?
 

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This is just a very few of them... the most famous is Acts 8 37 which is omited in all modern bibles to try to show that getting baptized saves a person
8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Hummm, this is like playing chess with a pigeon.

Rob
 

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
This is just a very few of them... the most famous is Acts 8 37 which is omited in all modern bibles to try to show that getting baptized saves a person
8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

and for a few others see
I have just answered this point in another thread ("In Defence of the King James Bible and Doctrine"). As I said there, and showed with quotes, Acts 8:37 is not omitted from all modern Bibles, just some.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Thankyou Dave. I had not intended to go cause a sensation :) However, the question was asked and so I briefly
and calmly :) answered it. I really do understand that others will have other points of view.
From my perspective,
It's not the "sensation" that you'll be causing, it's the arguments that are soon to ensue ( and already have ) that I'm trying to warn you about.

In other words, not just "other points of view", sir...
IMO, you will face opposition that you never thought should be there, but is. It has to do with what I'll call the difference between the "preservationist" ( as one member here put it recently ) and "reconstructionist" mindsets.

To put it simply, most that post here? I've found are at least marginally on the side of God allowing imperfect men to ultimately lose track of and then to re-discover His words, instead of Him using infallible men ( and especially His own children ) to preserve it perfectly through various "witnesses" down through the centuries.
 
Last edited:

Dave G

Well-Known Member
That said, having answered,
can have little more to say. After all, words do matter.
I agree.
The reason why we no longer have the origional manuscripts is that the Roman church
savagely burned them and the people who taught biblical truth for 1700 years
.
It seems that you and I both understand many of the same factors that have led us to where the visible church is in these last days.
I think there's more to it, but I'll leave that unsaid for now.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
There has always been a group of believers who refused to go along with the Roman churches errors and paganism.
Again I agree.
But I think, if you dig a bit deeper, you may start to see that the Roman church is but the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.
They have fellowshipped under several different names and dreadful persecution over 2000 years.
Once again, I agree.
I reccomend the booklet "The trail of blood" available from one ministry online
I saw elements of truth when I first read that booklet many years ago, and even now agree with the sense of it, generally speaking.
 
Last edited:

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It has to do with what I'll call the difference between the "preservationist" ( as one member here put it recently ) and "reconstructionist" mindsets.

I've found are at least marginally on the side of God allowing imperfect men to ultimately lose track of and then to re-discover His words, instead of Him using infallible men ( and especially His own children ) to preserve it perfectly through various "witnesses" down through the centuries.
I advocate a consistent view of Bible preservation that would apply before 1611, in 1611, and after 1611.

Human non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning in effect advocates an inconsistent view of Bible preservation and a so-called "reconstructionist" mindset as it suggests that some of the word of God was rediscovered, reconstructed and restored in either the varying Textus Receptus editions, in the KJV, or in both.

Isn’t it amazing that the claimed reading of one supposedly missing or lost NT manuscript at Revelation 16:5 can be advocated over the reading of all known accessible and preserved Greek NT manuscripts? Is it being suggested that the Greek NT text has not been preserved at Revelation 16:5 in the vast majority of NT manuscripts? Ron Minton asserted: “One should never base a reading on the evidence of only one Greek manuscript” (Making and Preservation, p. 37). Wilbur Pickering wrote: “It should also be evident that a variant in a single MS, of whatever age, is irrelevant – it is a false witness to its family archetype, at that point, nothing more” (God Has Preserved, p. 245). Andreas Kostenberger and Michael Kruger wrote: “Sometimes a certain reading exists in only one Greek manuscript and no other. Such singular readings—and there are thousands of them—have little claim to be the original text and therefore are irrelevant in assessing the reliability of the manuscript tradition” (Heresy, p. 216). Edward F. Hills asked: “Has the special providence of God over the New Testament Text done no more than to preserve the true readings somewhere, that is to say in some one or other of the great variety of New Testament manuscripts now existing in the world?” (KJV Defended, p. 109; Text, p. 195).

Is this Beza reading at Revelation 16:5 found in multiple reliable Greek NT manuscripts and in a preserved line of continuity of transmission? Is there any clear, sound historical evidence that this new Beza reading at Revelation 16:5 was handed down and widely accessible to each generation of believers and was in the texts and translations commonly and continually used by churches in every generation during the 1500 years from A. D. 100 until A. D. 1600? Are we to believe that part of the NT text was lost to most congregations and believers for over 1000 years until discovered and restored by Beza?

Jonathan Arnold asserted: “We may conclude that to assert that any portion of Scripture as having been lost is effectively to deny access to the whole counsel of God” (Hooper, It Is Written, p. 313). Generations of English-speaking believers did not have this Beza reading in their English Bible translations from Wycliffe’s Bible until the Bishop’s Bible [1380’s to 1610]. According to KJV-only advocates, are we to believe that until almost A. D. 1600 God left His church with a reading at Revelation 16:5 that was wrong? Did German-speaking believers have this Beza reading in Luther’s German Bible for its first 100 years? Did Spanish-speaking believers have this Beza reading in their early Spanish Bibles? Does this Beza reading at Revelation 16:5 clearly measure up to John William Burgon’s consistently Christian principles or methods of NT textual criticism? Is the KJV-only defense of the Beza reading at Revelation 16:5 consistent with the KJV-only view’s doctrine of preservation? According to KJV-only reasoning, did God promise that the correct reading at Revelation 16:5 would disappear or be lost for a long period of time and finally reappear and be restored hundreds of years later? Is faith being placed in textual critic Theodore Beza to restore the correct text at Revelation 16:5?
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
@Lewis HB : One other comment before I leave this thread:

Over the past 9 years or so since I began posting on this forum, I've made my position on this subject well-known. In that time, I've come to the conclusion that any further participation in it ( at least on my part ) will ultimately prove to be of little to no value;
Whether to myself, or to those reading my posts.

I may be persuaded differently in the future, but for now I feel that the sheer amount of flak that gets generated simply isn't worth weathering. ;)

Also, not everyone you may run into on this forum outright disagrees with the substance of what I see you attempting to show. For example, I've experienced some that simply don't like the "KJVO" position in general, and disagree with it on modern language grounds, rather than on the underlying Greek and Hebrew textual grounds.


That said, I wish you well...
And again, may God bless you.
 
Last edited:

Lewis HB

New Member
Brother Dave G,
thankyou for your kind note. Perhaps I should ask the question "Has God abandoned us, his faithful children, without a clear simple faith understanding of His Word?" I think not. He stated that He will and has preserved His inerrant Word for His people, especially in this final apostate generation.
In the educated opinion of many, and even most fundimental scholars, the Latin Vulgate was corrupted by Rome in support of their false doctrine. Likewise the Alexandrian manuscripts was corrupted with the Arian herisy and with liberalism. So In Our Humble Opinion :) the Greek texts from those sources which are used in "all" (Wescort and Hort) new Bibles cannot be trusted, indeed were edited to deliberately support false doctrine.
Yes, the 1611 Scholars did consider all manuscripts, but in the end, for the above reasons, chose to use the Sryian (recieved Text) for the KJV.
It does appear that the reason the surviving Syrian texts are not as old as the other texts is because Rome burned all the Syrian texts they could find as they contradicted Rome's pagan theology.
Lewis
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
He stated that He will and has preserved His inerrant Word for His people,
Lewis
Your non-scriptural KJV-only opinions in effect suggest that God failed to preserve His inerrant Word for His people before 1611. The word of God was translated into English many years before 1611. God was just as faithful to preserve His Word before 1611 as afterwards. The 1537 Matthew's Bible and the 1560 Geneva Bible were and are the word of God translated into English in the same sense (univocally) as the 1611 KJV was and is the word of God translated into English.

The KJV itself does not state nor teach that the word of God is bound to the textual criticism decisions, Bible revision decisions, and translation/interpretation decisions of one exclusive group of Church of England men in 1611.

You seem to ignore the doctrine of truth taught in the KJV as you refuse to acknowledge and correct non-true claims that you have made. You fail to back up your claims and prove them to be true, and yet you close your eyes to the clear verifiable evidence that those claims were not-true.
 
Top