Know much about Dave Ramsey's material?

[Alcott]

I ask this because, beginning tomorrow, the class I am in is going off our regular routine, to give the normal teacher a break, and having some guy come in to show videos from this DR and then ___ (I don't know). So I've tried to look up this guy and actually a lot can be found about him, but the essence of his material is not freely available, but is for sale. That probably gets me off to a skeptical start; that, plus I tend to be quite skeptical in the first place of any 'program' or 'series' about finances in any church-related setting.

If I'm wrong, tell me: I expect there to be a lot of talk about personal financial problems typical of over-spending materialistic Americans, and he's got the solution to getting out of debt and having a nest egg, and so on.... but then the T-word is going to sprung; not right away, but not too far into the material, as being a requirement to financial success. I'm concerned about that, because if it is so, that's the point at which I may become a disruption. If he (DR or this guy 'moderating') makes any claim that tithing results in financial blessings, I am going to contest that with my own experiences with statistical tests of hypotheses. In particular if he bring up Malachi 3, I know there's going to be a conflict of unknown depth.

 

[ktn4eg]

While I look at some things financially different than DR, he does present some valid points. Ramsey does believe in tithing, but he doesn't push it that far in some of his material. Whether he'll do it in the stuff you're using I don't know.

 

[billwald]

There is no magic formula. People who can't handle credit cards should pay them off and close the accounts.

http://www.michellesingletary.com/ writes a good money column for working class people.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

DR does teach that the tithe is to be at the top of the "budget" list and is to be paid first and foremost.

From daveramsey.com:

Is it acceptable to pause tithing in tough financial times?

The Bible does not mention anything about "pausing" tithing. Neither does it say that we will go to Hell if we do not tithe.

The tithe, which is a scriptural mandate, was not instituted for God's benefit because He already has all the money He needs. He does not need our money.

So why does He ask us to give 10% to Him? Tithing was created for our benefit. It is to teach us how to keep God first in our lives and how to be unselfish people. Unselfish people make better husbands, wives, friends, relatives, employees and employers. God is trying to teach us how to prosper over time.

As you can see, DR accuses those who don't "tithe" as being selfish. He says tithing "is a scriptural mandate".

DR, like many preachers who do not study enough (or ignore the truth for their own selfish gain) takes a command that was given to those who God required to tithe (the Israelites) and brings that command forward into the Gentile Churches (who the Apostles never gave such command to).

Much of DR's Financial Peace University is good, but because he teaches contrary to Scripture concerning the tithe, I do not recommend his package.

 

[billwald]

>>So why does He ask us to give 10% to Him? Tithing was created for our benefit. It is to teach us how to keep God first in our lives and how to be unselfish people. Unselfish people make better husbands, wives, friends, relatives, employees and employers. God is trying to teach us how to prosper over time.


>As you can see, DR accuses those who don't "tithe" as being selfish.

This is not a logical conclusion. The equivalent of a Baptist saying that everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

DR holds that those who tithe are unselfish. This implies that those who do not tithe are selfish.

DR is wrong. He is teaching the Church to practice a system that was never ordained for the Church to do.

 

[Alcott]

Today's video, and the introduction by the guy doing this, was okay, I suppose. The divisive subject I am concerned about was only hinted at, both by DR and the mod by mentioning #13, which the mod said is one we will definitely include; as there are only going to be 6 or 7 weeks of this. However, that does seem to confirm my suspicion about 'springing it.' It obviously can't be a surprise, not completely anyway, but the idea that they may claim that careful budgeting and prioritizing are not going to be useful if we don't tithe-- I'll just have to see if that's the path they are following. So far, the only time the word tithe has been used was in one of those interviews (who knows how true or spontaneous?) from people who have been through the course and say it has helped them in a marrrvelous way.

So really, after today, for me it's less concern about me causing conflict because I am not going to silently take in some idea that I've shown to be untrue, as much as I don't seem to have the problems with wild credit card spending or not knowing just how much I spend on certain items. So I still don't think it's for me; but since I do have a position of responsibility in that class, I will continue to attend. But I'll be less concerned about missing a couple or so for some travel I intend to do.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Just keep your ears open. I had all 16 CD's of the Financial Peace Program and he definitely tells people they cannot expect to handle their finances right if they do not give God His 10%.

 

[mont974x4]

I have taught the material to two classes in the last year and a half. Dave does preach the tithe is for today, although I did not find him to be real pushy on it. He is big on being a giver, which is Scriptural.

Dave is honest in that he says it takes hard work and time to get our debt handled. He himself makes it clear that this is a not get rich quick program and it takes dedication.

You are free to set your own budget and work the plan at your own pace. Last time I checked, which was about Thanksgiving last year, my bride and I had paid off, or paid down, about $50k in debt. We did not get real crazy on the budget either. Just the house and student loans to go now.

I recommend it. If the person leading that class wants to then during the discussion period he can address the tithe issue however he finds appropriate.