Knowing you have sinned vs. knowing you're a sinner

[xdisciplex]

But I think you can also become saved without having a bible and without having somebody preach to you. People which heard about Jesus and know some things about him can also become saved, can't they? I didn't understand all these things which I got saved. But I think what matters is that you want to become saved and that you also react to God who draws you.

 

[Brother Bob]

Sure you can be saved without a Bible. "they shall know me from the least to the greatest." "there is an angel in Heaven having the everlasting Gospel to preach to them that do dwell on the earth." "There is a Spirit in man, the inspiration of God Almighty that giveth him understanding". "before I came they had a cloak for their sins."
We are not living back when we had a high preist here, but our high preist is Jesus Himself and knows the hearts and minds of all men, even knows when a little bird falls to the ground.

 

[xdisciplex]

In order to get saved do you have to have heard the full gospel before or is it also possible that God simply makes you respond to Jesus? For example when you have only heard that Jesus was somebody who did miracles and you also know that he had something to do with forgiveness then is possible that you simply respond to this name because you get hope?
I once heard the story of a drug-addict who said he once went to a christian conference and he didn't even know what it was about he suddenly sensed hope and ran to the altar. I think he had no clue but in spite of this he responded to this feeling. Can becoming saved be reduced to God drawing a person and the person simply responds with yes, without knowing all the details right away?

 

[genesis12]

[Can becoming saved be reduced to God drawing a person and the person simply responds with yes, without knowing all the details right away?]

I wouldn't refer to it as "reduced," but yes. Since you are already saved, walk in His Truth.

 

[Claudia_T]

Sure you can be saved without a Bible. "they shall know me from the least to the greatest." "there is an angel in Heaven having the everlasting Gospel to preach to them that do dwell on the earth." "There is a Spirit in man, the inspiration of God Almighty that giveth him understanding". "before I came they had a cloak for their sins."
We are not living back when we had a high preist here, but our high preist is Jesus Himself and knows the hearts and minds of all men, even knows when a little bird falls to the ground.

Bob,

Doesnt it say somewhere in the New Testament that the heathen know in their heart there is a God and some are saved without the Law ? I cant remember where. it says something about the Holy Spirit teaching them I think?

 

[bmerr]

But I think you can also become saved without having a bible and without having somebody preach to you. People which heard about Jesus and know some things about him can also become saved, can't they? I didn't understand all these things which I got saved. But I think what matters is that you want to become saved and that you also react to God who draws you.

xdisciplex,

bmerr here. It's important to understand how one gets faith by which to be saved. Rom 10:17 tells us, "So then, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God".

We do not get faith by the Holy Spirit mysteriously operating directly on our hearts to make us believe in Jesus. There is no Biblical reason for anyone to believe such. In every account of conversion, there is the preaching of God's word, and the response of obedience through faith by those who receive it.

Preaching, faith, repentance, and baptism. This pattern is seen throughout the book of Acts.

Some use John 6:44, (which I believe you referred to) to teach that God miraculously draws people to believe in Christ. The very next verse tells us how men are drawn by God. "...And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

How does God teach? Has He not, "...at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,...in these last days spoken unto us by his Son..."? Are the teachings of Christ not written in the Bible? Did He not give the apostles the Holy Spirit to guide them into all truth (John 16:13)? Are their words not recorded for us in the Bible?

The word of God is the only way in which God speaks to man today. If we love Christ, we will keep His commandments (John 14:15). This includes, yea, begins with, the commands contained in the faithful preaching of the gospel.

Again, most of those who obeyed the gospel in the book of Acts only heard it one time. Believe what they were taught, and respond as they did, and you'll be what they were.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

[xdisciplex]

bmerr,
I did not even have a bible. I heard about Jesus in school years ago.
I also had nobody preaching to me.
If the word of God is the only source of faith then you cannot even witness to another person without having a bible....
What do people do which go to countries where languages are spoken which we do not have bible translations for? Then they would all be doomed. Since they cannot give the people the word of God they have no way to save them... come on.
I think God has more ways to draw people to himself.

The word of God is the only way in which God speaks to man today.

I disagree. You are limiting God. Do you not think God can speak to you through your conscience or through whatever he needs to reach you? Through other persons? Movies? Music? What about rhemas?
I believe God spoke to me through music because I am receptive to such things. When you say God only uses the bible then you are basically saying that everything which I experienced is not from God.

 

[bmerr]

xdisciplex,

bmerr here. What the Bible says is that "...faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Rom 10:17). We can hear the word of God through others when they speak things that are in keeping with it. Certainly songs, and even movies can make an impression on our minds, as we weigh what's being said in them against God's word. I don't know what "rhemas" are/is, so I won't comment on that. Our conscience can be bothered by things if our minds have the word in them.

I didn't mean that owning a bible was prerequisite to salvation. But in order to be saved in accordance with the NT, one must hear God's word, believe it, repent of sins, and be baptized for the remission of sins.

Read Rom 10:13-17. Calling on the name of the Lord is preceded by believing, preceded by hearing, preceded by preaching, preceded by sending.

I can preach the gospel to others without holding a Bible in my hand if I have taken the time to commit God's word to memory. When I quote Scripture, I am speaking, and the hearer is hearing, God's word, which is the source of faith. If I am in an area where I don't speak the language, then I must learn the language, or find an interpreter to preach God's word.

What you or I believe is not the foundation of truth. Only God's word is a sure foundation for faith. Personal experience, though convincing, is not what saves men. Sometimes personal experiences and even some beliefs must be abandoned when they are found in contrast with God's word.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

[xdisciplex]

So you're saying unless you memorize bible verses 1:1 you cannot witness to a person and the person cannot get faith?
I don't agree with this.
After all God is sovereign, if he wants a person saved he'll also get the person saved.

 

[bmerr]

So you're saying unless you memorize bible verses 1:1 you cannot witness to a person and the person cannot get faith?
I don't agree with this.
After all God is sovereign, if he wants a person saved he'll also get the person saved.

xdisciplex,

bmerr here. The Bible says that "...faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10:17). To my knowledge, that is the only way the Bible says one can have faith.

Now, how one hears the word, whether by someone preaching, or "witnessing", or some other means, doesn't make much difference, as far as I can tell. But God doesn't just "send a blast of faith" out of heaven so a person can be saved. If He did it for one, He would do if for all, since God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34).

Look at how he "got people saved" in the book of Acts. The Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26-39) is a good example.

Phillip was in Samaria, preaching the gospel (8:25). An angel of the Lord told him to go down south to the road that leads from Jerusalem to Gaza, which was deserted (8:26). Phillip got up and got going (8:27).

Now, get out your Bible maps for a minute. Locate Samaria, Jerusalem, and Gaza. They form a triangle, with Samaria on top, Gaza on the bottom, off to the left, and Jerusalem between, but to the right.

The eunuch is in a chariot. Phillip is apparently on foot (8:30). God must have sent Phillip on his way at least a couple of days before the eunuch ever left Jerusalem, in order for him to meet up with him between Jerusalem and Gaza. Pretty cool, huh?

Anyway, God sends a gospel preacher to meet a lost man. When he gets close enough, the Spirit says to Phillip, "Go near, and join thyself to this chariot" (8:29).

Phillip runs, and asks the man if he understands what he's reading. The eunuch asks for help, and Phillip does what he was doing up on Samaria, he preaches Christ to this man.

As they go, the eunuch sees water, and requests baptism. Phillip makes sure he knows that belief must precede baptism, and the eunuch gives the good confession. They go down into the water, and Phillip baptizes the eunuch. Phillip is caught away, and the eunuch goes on his way rejoicing, because he knows that he has been saved, since he believed what he was taught, and he obeyed the commands given him. he trusts that God has saved him.

Like I said earlier, the pattern we see in Acts is preaching, believing, repentance, and baptism. Over and over again. Is this how you were converted? If not, are you sure you were saved?

In Christ,

bmerr