Korea

[FR7 Baptist]

I stand on the same grace and freedom that The Lord Jesus has brought me and praise Him for it, but with that He also brought me the freedom to protect my family, myself, my country and any innocent person at any cost to the aggressor. And while I would get no pleasure out of having to take another's life I would do it in a heartbeat if necessary.

Aggressor does not equal all North Koreans. Nuclear weapons are evil and no nuclear war can ever be just because they violate noncombatant immunity. Like Ronald Reagan, I seek the elimination of nuclear weapons from the planet.

 

[preachinjesus]

Like Ronald Reagan, I seek the elimination of nuclear weapons from the planet.

On this we absolutely agree! :thumbs:

 

[freeatlast]

Aggressor does not equal all North Koreans. Nuclear weapons are evil and no nuclear war can ever be just because they violate noncombatant immunity. Like Ronald Reagan, I seek the elimination of nuclear weapons from the planet.

Ronald who? Have you forgotten him sending American bombers against Libya to bomb the home of the dictator and his child was killed ? if a person is killed with a nuke or a daisy cutter, hand grenade, or a knife, the result is the same. Nukes are a great deterrent and they have kept us safe from those who would press their will on us, but they are also a great weapon against those who decide to ignore the deterrent. We even have tactical nukes that can be shot from a tank with much less destruction. As far a Regan wanting to see nukes done away with it was in reagrds to war and all weapons. Doing away with nukes will not make the world safer or a better place. Only the return of Jesus Christ will do that and He is going to kill multitudes at His coming.

And it does not matter if it is all who are aggressors or not. Like I said send your children to war teaching them to be careful and try and figure out who is friendly and who is not. The Viet cong would have loved you and eat you alive and left you childless. As far as your statement "no nuclear war can ever be just because they violate noncombatant immunity" have you ever heard of a war where the noncombatant get immunity. There has never been such a war, EVER, but that does not make it unjust. It is true that some noncombatant realize immunity, and the US usually seeks to keep such as a practice and that is good, but in every war ever fought noncombatant do perish and is caused by both sides.
Also may I point out that we have lost every war since WW2 except the first gulf war and WW2 was won with nukes. Every other conventual war since then we have not won. We are now fighting one war on two fronts longer then any war in our history and we have not yet own it. In the case of North Korea in my opinion they are so brain washed, and radical that it would require far too many causalities to fight a conventual war with them. The last time they ripped us apart with the help of China. Also it would leave a big chance of drawing in China to WW3. If the North was nuked out of existence then there would be no reason for China getting involved and our causalities would be very limited. However by your definition God is unjust because God Command Genocide, by the way more then once.
It is fine that you are passive, but don't try and suggest that those who hold to standing up against those who are aggressors are somehow unjust especially since you would not be free if they did not and yes we did justifiably kill noncombatants in WW2 as we have in every other war to spare our own men and women.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I hope you are not serious and that you are just trying to get a rise out of other people.

And God did say this about how we are to act toward North Koreans and everyone else:

Matthew 28: 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

If they are not elect why bother?

 

[Crabtownboy]

If they are not elect why bother?

Good Calvinist answer. If my memory is correct that is what Calvinists said to William Carey back in the mid-1800's.

You know, if God wants them saved he will save them, we do not have to go taking the word to them.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Good Calvinist answer. If my memory is correct that is what Calvinists said to William Carey back in the mid-1800's.

You know, if God wants them saved he will save them, we do not have to go taking the word to them.

Thanks. And look how many years he struggled with no results. Sounds like a lot of wasted time on the non elect. If God really wanted someone to be saved they would be born american to begin with. But since most people aren't elect most people are also not american and grow up in muslim, budhist, hindu countries. And as it turn out N. Korea is Budhist or God emperor worshipers. God isn't really intent on saving them. The ones he wants saved are already americans.

 

[targus]

Thanks. And look how many years he struggled with no results. Sounds like a lot of wasted time on the non elect. If God really wanted someone to be saved they would be born american to begin with. But since most people aren't elect most people are also not american and grow up in muslim, budhist, hindu countries. And as it turn out N. Korea is Budhist or God emperor worshipers. God isn't really intent on saving them. The ones he wants saved are already americans.

You are joking right?

To be elect is to be born American?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Thanks. And look how many years he struggled with no results. Sounds like a lot of wasted time on the non elect. If God really wanted someone to be saved they would be born american to begin with. But since most people aren't elect most people are also not american and grow up in muslim, budhist, hindu countries. And as it turn out N. Korea is Budhist or God emperor worshipers. God isn't really intent on saving them. The ones he wants saved are already americans.

I was being sarcastic.

I am not sure what history you have read, but it seems to have been a faulty history. Carey was quite successful. Did you know that in Nagaland, a province in India, about 90% of the people there are Baptist? It was Carey's work that laid the groundwork for this possibility. We had a student who earned his advanced degree here a few years ago from Nagaland. He said he was quite surprised at how small the churches in Europe are, that on an average Sunday there are at least 5,000 in his home church and on a good Sunday 10,000.

It seems to me that the extreme Calvinist take, as you expressed it, is simply a way of avoiding the responsibility that Christ laid on us with the Great Commission, i.e.

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. (Matthew 28:18-20)

If God was going to do all the work, i.e. simply saving those he wanted to save, Christ would not have given the Great Commission!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You are joking right?

To be elect is to be born American?

For the most part. You can be Candian and be certain of your election. A little more difficult if you're English. All other European countries are problematic. And as for the rest of the world...You're most likely not elect. However, God will save you no matter what country you're in but He doesn't really need the help of anyone. So if you're not christian in N. Korea chances are you're not elect. And if you're not elect why should we worry if we nuke you or not? I mean judgements comming their way anyway. Hey, I'm just looking at this from a 5 pointer point of view.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I was being sarcastic.

I am not sure what history you have read, but it seems to have been a faulty history. Carey was quite successful. Did you know that in Nagaland, a province in India, about 90% of the people there are Baptist? It was Carey's work that laid the groundwork for this possibility. We had a student who earned his advanced degree here a few years ago from Nagaland. He said he was quite surprised at how small the churches in Europe are, that on an average Sunday there are at least 5,000 in his home church and on a good Sunday 10,000.

It seems to me that the extreme Calvinist take, as you expressed it, is simply a way of avoiding the responsibility that Christ laid on us with the Great Commission, i.e.


If God was going to do all the work, i.e. simply saving those he wanted to save, Christ would not have given the Great Commission!

My history is not off. It took awhile for Carey to get converts he lost his son to dysentary. His wife had a nervous breakdown he had all sorts of struggles and he came up with the statement "I can plod" He was successful later but then you have to wonder how many of those people are actually elect.

Are you suggesting that God Needs people to do his work? Where is is soverignty now?

 

[Crabtownboy]

My history is not off. It took awhile for Carey to get converts he lost his son to dysentary. His wife had a nervous breakdown he had all sorts of struggles and he came up with the statement "I can plod" He was successful later but then you have to wonder how many of those people are actually elect.

Are you suggesting that God Needs people to do his work? Where is is soverignty now?

What does the Great Commission say?
Why did Jesus bother to have disciples if God was going to do it all?
Why did God send Paul as a missionary? If you are right it was unnecessary.

God never promised a live with no risks, problems, disappointments, etc.

:flower:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

What does the Great Commission say?
Why did Jesus bother to have disciples if God was going to do it all?
Why did God send Paul as a missionary? If you are right it was unnecessary.

God never promised a live with no risks, problems, disappointments, etc.

:flower:

Ultimately you may be right!

 

[Robert Snow]

And while I thank God that I am allowed to live under the freedoms we have even though they are going fast, I am not proud of a country that sanctions the murder of millions of babies...

Would you be in favor of us nuking ourselves then? That seems to be your default solution.

And while I would get no pleasure out of having to take another's life I would do it in a heartbeat if necessary.

Have you ever actually taken someone's life? If not, it might not be as easy as you think. I know that if I had a dollar for every time I've heard statements like this, I would be driving a newer car!

 

[freeatlast]

Thanks. And look how many years he struggled with no results. Sounds like a lot of wasted time on the non elect. If God really wanted someone to be saved they would be born american to begin with. But since most people aren't elect most people are also not american and grow up in muslim, budhist, hindu countries. And as it turn out N. Korea is Budhist or God emperor worshipers. God isn't really intent on saving them. The ones he wants saved are already americans.

I have listened to some trash before, but this is a junkyard.

 

[freeatlast]

Would you be in favor of us nuking ourselves then? That seems to be your default solution.



Have you ever actually taken someone's life? If not, it might not be as easy as you think. I know that if I had a dollar for every time I've heard statements like this, I would be driving a newer car!

The first question does not make sense, To the second the answer is regretfully yes I have helped in it. The details are unnecessary and I hope that you get that new car!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I have listened to some trash before, but this is a junkyard.

I find this statement from you interesting because I was making fun of you and your position with regard to N. Korea. I mean really. Nuke them? How uncharitable to a people already suffering under and insane dictator and starving to death.

 

[freeatlast]

I find this statement from you interesting because I was making fun of you and your position with regard to N. Korea. I mean really. Nuke them? How uncharitable to a people already suffering under and insane dictator and starving to death.

So you believe in charity? Well what are you doing here? Go there and spread charity. You and your children.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

So you believe in charity? Well what are you doing here? Go there and spread charity. You and your children.

At least I rebuked your position in a fun and entertaining way with out being nasty to your person. I find that charitable.

 

[freeatlast]

At least I rebuked your position in a fun and entertaining way with out being nasty to your person. I find that charitable.

I was simply being to the point. What are you doing here if you are so charitable to those who are aggressors and murderers? You seem to be first in line with words, how about first in line with actions which would be charity.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I was simply being to the point. What are you doing here if you are so charitable to those who are aggressors and murderers? You seem to be first in line with words, how about first in line with actions which would be charity.

couple of things to note. 1) you have no idea what actions I have taken whether Charitable or not. 2) And being to the point, though commendable, is not a vitue when you suggest Nuking people.

The United States Maintains nuclear warheads and weapons to act as a deterant. The hope is never to use them. N. Korea has a tyranical government and is starving its own people to death. Nuclear weapons do not make a distinction between Tyrants, and innocents. S. Korea has a right to defend itself and can do that effectively without immediately using nukes.