Lack of education on logic the problem

[Luke2427]

These last couple of weeks have been very revealing about the lack of education of members on baptistboard. Not all by any means- but many.

Now, I don't just mean a lack of seminary education. I do not think that that is essential at all.

But I do think ANYBODY who speaks as authoritatively as many speak on baptistboard on issues as important as the VERY NATURE AND CHARACTER OF GOD should know what logic is.

They may learn this through seminary, they may learn it through personal study and reading of books or they may know it from natural revelation, but ANYBODY who speaks like some do here ought to know that WHATEVER you believe OUGHT TO BE LOGICAL.


I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT SOME ARE LITERALLY ARGUING THAT LOGIC DOES NOT APPLY TO GOD!

I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT SOME LITERALLY BELIEVE THAT THEIR THEOLOGY DOES NOT HAVE TO BE LOGICAL!!

I am not surprised to hear Winman and Van say this. Most of us already knew that they have no interest in their doctrines making logical sense.

But I am surprised that some others literally justify their theology by saying that logic is BUNK as it pertains to theology.

 

[InTheLight]

 

[Luke2427]

Confession is good for the soul, they say.:thumbs:

 

[Arbo]

Lack of education on logic the problem

Somebody's trying to pick a fight...:laugh:

 

[thomas15]

..... Most of us already knew that they have no interest in their doctrines making logical sense.

But I am surprised that some others literally justify their theology by saying that logic is BUNK as it pertains to theology.

I think you are actually being kind in your assessment. There are these days a general lack of logic and consistency in the interpretation of the Scriptures. The trend these days is the make the Bible fit the theology and if that isn't possible, insist that the theology is right anyway. No longer is there a baseline for the faith sorry to say.

 

[InTheLight]

Lack of education on logic the problem

Somebody's trying to pick a fight...:laugh:

No doubt about it. And with an intro like that, who wouldn't want to engage him in conversation?

He could start by logically explaining how God preordains everything but is not the author of sin.* Using logic.



*Not my theology, but I presume it is a central tenet of most flavors of Calvinism.

 

[Luke2427]

No doubt about it. And with an intro like that, who wouldn't want to engage him in conversation?

People who care about theology.

Who cares what anybody else thinks?

 

[preachinjesus]

With all this talk of logic, I'm wondering if the Vulcan's are invading soon?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Confession is good for the soul, they say.:thumbs:

Got a match? :laugh:

 

[webdog]

He could start by logically explaining how God preordains everything but is not the author of sin.* Using logic.



*Not my theology, but I presume it is a central tenet of most flavors of Calvinism.

been waiting for the answer to this for 10 years.

I'll counter that a lack of faith, not education is the biggest problem on the bb. When someone has all the education in the world and can figure out everything on their own...then there is a problem.

In addition, if everything has been determined, it includes the 'illogic' of the bb members, hence even their views and opinions must be logical.

 

[Luke2427]

been waiting for the answer to this for 10 years.

Start a thread. I'll meet you there. :wavey:

I'll counter that a lack of faith, not education is the biggest problem on the bb. When someone has all the education in the world and can figure out everything on their own...then there is a problem.

The lack of real faith perhaps.

Real faith is "full persuasion" which takes place when someone is "convicted" (which means to be convinced) which has EVERYTHING to do with the application of logic.

Illogical faith is pagan faith- it matters not if bears the name of Hinduism, Islam or Christianity.

Real faith is LOGICAL FAITH.

 

[Luke2427]

I like this statement from an apologist:

The first-century Christians came to believe because Jesus proved himself worthy of their belief, not because they were blindly committing themselves to something irrational. In his letter to the Romans, Paul wrote, “And Jesus Christ our Lord was shown to be the Son of God when God powerfully raised him from the dead…” Far from suggesting our faith must be blind, Paul painstakingly anchored the Christian faith in the physical, historical event of Jesus’ resurrection.

The idea that faith is necessarily blind, or that belief in God is entirely unsupported by evidence, is nothing but a caricature. It’s a deliberate misrepresentation of Christians that is refuted explicitly in the Bible. It’s also refuted each and every time a Christian apologist takes the stage and argues from history, philosophy, and science for the existence of God and the deity of Jesus.

 

[InTheLight]

I like from an apologist:

The idea that faith is necessarily blind, or that belief in God is entirely unsupported by evidence, is nothing but a caricature. It’s a deliberate misrepresentation of Christians that is refuted explicitly in the Bible.

I like this from the Holy Bible:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. --Hebrews 11:1-3

 

[Luke2427]

I like this from the Holy Bible:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. --Hebrews 11:1-3

Right. That verse makes my point.

We see the things that are seen and we conclude logically that they are made of that which is invisible.

And the word for "faith" there is πείθω which means to be convinced or to be fully persuaded.

Faith is not some stupid decision whereby some person not utilizing intectual facilities just believes against all reason.

That's pure idiotic and every Christian should be EXTREMELY insulted by the notion that faith is that idiotic.

Only psychos and morons believe things that way.

Faith is reasonable.

Faith is based on facts.

Faith is the result of THINKING and BEING CONVINCED by those facts.

Any other kind of faith is useless as tics on a hound.

 

[InTheLight]

Faith is not some stupid decision whereby some person not utilizing intectual facilities just believes against all reason.

That's pure idiotic and every Christian should be EXTREMELY insulted by the notion that faith is that idiotic.

Only psychos and morons believe things that way.

Yes, you keep banging on about this but I don't see anyone saying anything like you are alleging. Hence my strawman image earlier in the thread. In essence you are accusing people on BB of doing something that no one has done. Give it a rest.

 

[Luke2427]

Yes, you keep banging on about this but I don't see anyone saying anything like you are alleging. Hence my strawman image earlier in the thread. In essence you are accusing people on BB of doing something that no one has done. Give it a rest.

As I said earlier, even a cursory perusal of the thread "the greatest error on baptistboard" will prove this to be patently false.

MOST posters in that thread were arguing that God must be trusted by a faith apart from logic.

They were arguing that God is not logical and therefore their theology concerning him does not have to be logical.

 

[Van]

I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT SOME ARE LITERALLY ARGUING THAT LOGIC DOES NOT APPLY TO GOD!

I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT SOME LITERALLY BELIEVE THAT THEIR THEOLOGY DOES NOT HAVE TO BE LOGICAL!!

I am not surprised to hear Winman and Van say this

No quote will be forthcoming to support this complete fiction Smearing others is not logic, and the smear is the most common form of defense of Calvinism.

Logic applies to God. When someone says something inconsistent with attributes of God, then that statement about God is irrational. So my view is the opposite of what was said by the Calvinist, who simply misrepresents others and avoids logical arguments by using logical fallacies.

I believe theology must be logical, i.e. make sense, and those who propound the pig in poke theology of "God's ways are higher than our own" are simply telling us to accept what is inconsistent with scripture.

 

[Luke2427]

No quote will be forthcoming to support this complete fiction Smearing others is not logic, and the smear is the most common form of defense of Calvinism.

Logic applies to God. When someone says something inconsistent with attributes of God, then that statement about God is irrational. So my view is the opposite of what was said by the Calvinist, who simply misrepresents others and avoids logical arguments by using logical fallacies.

I believe theology must be logical, i.e. make sense, and those who propound the pig in poke theology of "God's ways are higher than our own" are simply telling us to accept what is inconsistent with scripture.

You know better.

Winman, for example answered this question "So does God know everything there is to ever know about everything" with this answer "yes and no'.

Well that is the unmitigated, unadulterated DEFINITION of violating the law of noncontradiction.

 

[webdog]

You know better.

Winman, for example answered this question "So does God know everything there is to ever know about everything" with this answer "yes and no'.

Well that is the unmitigated, unadulterated DEFINITION of violating the law of noncontradiction.

How? The Bible clearly said Christ (100% God) didn't know something. I know you will counter that it was his humanity that didn't know, but that is false as we cannot separated His deity from His humanity. This thinking was a HUGE error in the early church.

Now what? We accept it on faith...not illogical faith...just faith the His ways and understanding awesomely trumps ours.

 

[InTheLight]

As I said earlier, even a cursory perusal of the thread "the greatest error on baptistboard" will prove this to be patently false.

MOST posters in that thread were arguing that God must be trusted by a faith apart from logic.

They were arguing that God is not logical and therefore their theology concerning him does not have to be logical.

You said:

Faith is not some stupid decision whereby some person not utilizing intectual facilities just believes against all reason.

I don't see anyone in that thread saying that.


You said:

They were arguing that God is not logical and therefore their theology concerning him does not have to be logical.

I don't see anyone in that thread saying God is not logical. I did see people saying things like, "it's not humanly logical for a person to be fully human and fully God" or "it's not humanly logical for a rod of wood to turn into a snake".

I think you are seeing the words that you want to see and not what is actually written.