Lack of education on logic the problem

[Luke2427]

Uh, I'm gonna give you the night to think about that answer.

Um...

Are you about to try to contend that the second person of the godhead stopped being God while he was a man??

Are you about to purport that Jesus was not omnipotent while on earth??

That's a pretty serious error.

 

[quantumfaith]

A couple of interesting articles:

http://shotgunwildatheart.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/logic-as-an-attribute-of-god/

http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/evidence-for-god-from-logic/

 

[Bro. James]

Man is still having trouble with the logic of his navel.

God is potter; man is clay. That is not logical.

God cannot be defined by the words of man. His ways are not ours.

Man has great difficulty with accountability. This shows up in his worldly endeavors as well as any spiritual inclinations he may have.

Man does not like to be accountable to anyone but himself--so he makes his own religion.

The population of this globe is approaching 7 billion. Most of this number are not Christian. Most of those in Christendom do not follow Christ. Apply logic. Aristotle could not figure it out. A little child can understand.

That is not logical either.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Van]

Pitchback

You know better.

Winman, for example answered this question "So does God know everything there is to ever know about everything" with this answer "yes and no'.

Well that is the unmitigated, unadulterated DEFINITION of violating the law of noncontradiction.

Then you should have addressed Winman and left my name out of your smear.

You want to see the definition of violating the law of non-contradiction, lets say God ordains whatsoever comes to pass but that does not make him the author of sin. Total irrational nonsense is the mainstay of Calvinism. Thus it is defended with smears, misrepresentations and absurdities.

 

[Winman]

Then you should have addressed Winman and left my name out of your smear.

You want to see the definition of violating the law of non-contradiction, lets say God ordains whatsoever comes to pass but that does not make him the author of sin. Total irrational nonsense is the mainstay of Calvinism. Thus it is defended with smears, misrepresentations and absurdities.

Boy, Luke loves to bring up my name, I am his arch enemy "Illogical Man"

Luke thinks he can put God in his box and understand everything about him. He would be better off to simply trust what scripture says.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Jesus said he did not know the exact day and hour he would return. I simply believe what Jesus said, Luke has a problem believing Jesus's words. Shame.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Luke's problem is not with me, his problem is with the word of God. It is Jesus who said he did not know exactly when he would return, not me. If Luke believes that is illogical, then he believes Jesus said something illogical.

 

[InTheLight]

You can say you have a dorsal fin. Yes. There is nothing illogical about that statement. Weird- yes. Unnatural- probably. Illogical- no.

It's not a true statement.

I have stated that the three fundamental laws of logic come from God numerous times. They exist ONLY because God is internally consistent.

Now it's your turn. What are these man-made laws you talk about?

You've been talking about them a lot.

Law of non-contradiction
Law of identity
Law of the excluded middle

 

[webdog]

Luke, there's nothing illogical by ITL stating he has a dorsal fin???



Didn't you say logic = truth?

 

[Luke2427]

Man is still having trouble with the logic of his navel.

In what way is man having trouble with the "logic" of his navel?

God is potter; man is clay. That is not logical.

I what way is that not logical?

God cannot be defined by the words of man. His ways are not ours.

What does that have to do with whether or not God is logical?

 

[Luke2427]

Boy, Luke loves to bring up my name, I am his arch enemy "Illogical Man"

Luke thinks he can put God in his box and understand everything about him. He would be better off to simply trust what scripture says.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Jesus said he did not know the exact day and hour he would return. I simply believe what Jesus said, Luke has a problem believing Jesus's words. Shame.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Luke's problem is not with me, his problem is with the word of God. It is Jesus who said he did not know exactly when he would return, not me. If Luke believes that is illogical, then he believes Jesus said something illogical.

Do you put God in a box when you say he is loving?

do you put God in a box when you say he is holy?

No.

Neither do you put God in a box when you say he is logical. Why? Because all you are ultimately saying is that God is internally consistent which is the ESSENCE of honesty and trustworthiness.

You have a different God in your self-created theology. He is a God who can be less than God- he is a God who can STOP being God whenever he chooses. Your God is mutable, changeable.

You said that your God can lay aside his omniscience.

Then guess what. That means your God can lay aside his holiness, too.

You have put your God in a box and it is a terrible box.

The God of Scripture cannot lay aside his attributes. He is God, and all that that entails, all of the time.

That is not a box, Winman.

 

[Luke2427]

Then you should have addressed Winman and left my name out of your smear.

You want to see the definition of violating the law of non-contradiction, lets say God ordains whatsoever comes to pass but that does not make him the author of sin. Total irrational nonsense is the mainstay of Calvinism. Thus it is defended with smears, misrepresentations and absurdities.

I agree with you that if evil is a thing that to say that God created everyTHING and did not create evil- then that is illogical.

Fortunately, that is not how it works.

 

[Luke2427]

It's not a true statement.



You've been talking about them a lot.

Law of non-contradiction
Law of identity
Law of the excluded middle

So you are saying that man created the laws of logic?

 

[Luke2427]

Luke, there's nothing illogical by ITL stating he has a dorsal fin???



Didn't you say logic = truth?

That's right.

He may HAVE a dorsal fin for all you and I know. The little information he has provided does not enable us to utilize logic to prove the falseness of it.

As he provides more information we will probably be able to falsify his statement.

If a man says, "I put a few gumballs in my right pocket and a few in my left pocket so I now have a total of 6 gumballs in my pocket."

Can we apply logic to falsify his statement? Not with the little information he has given. There is nothing illogical about what he said.

But if we find out that his pockets were completely empty and that he put 2 gumballs in one pocket and three in the other, we can apply logic to falsify his claim that he has 6 gumballs in his two pockets.

 

[Winman]

I agree with you that if evil is a thing that to say that God created everyTHING and did not create evil- then that is illogical.

Fortunately, that is not how it works.

Van didn't say "created" evil, he said what Reformed creeds say, that God "ordained" everything that comes to pass.

If God ordained that evil takes place, then evil men MUST do evil. They cannot refuse or repent from evil. Of course, in your system they cannot possibly will to do anything but evil, because God has ordained it. So, how can God not be the author of evil in your system?

 

[Luke2427]

A couple of interesting articles:

http://shotgunwildatheart.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/logic-as-an-attribute-of-god/

http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/evidence-for-god-from-logic/

Right.

The second article is a common argument that apologists use to debate the likes of Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens.

Winman, webdog, etc... undermine one of, if not THE, greatest argument for the existence of God.

The fact that transcendent laws of logic exist and are invincible is unequivocal proof that God exists.

 

[Luke2427]

Van didn't say "created" evil, he said what Reformed creeds say, that God "ordained" everything that comes to pass.

If God ordained that evil takes place, then evil men MUST do evil. They cannot refuse or repent from evil. Of course, in your system they cannot possibly will to do anything but evil, because God has ordained it. So, how can God not be the author of evil in your system?

Start a thread on the author of evil and I will discuss that with you there.

 

[Winman]

Do you put God in a box when you say he is loving?

do you put God in a box when you say he is holy?

No.

Neither do you put God in a box when you say he is logical. Why? Because all you are ultimately saying is that God is internally consistent which is the ESSENCE of honesty and trustworthiness.

You have a different God in your self-created theology. He is a God who can be less than God- he is a God who can STOP being God whenever he chooses. Your God is mutable, changeable.

You said that your God can lay aside his omniscience.

Then guess what. That means your God can lay aside his holiness, too.

You have put your God in a box and it is a terrible box.

The God of Scripture cannot lay aside his attributes. He is God, and all that that entails, all of the time.

That is not a box, Winman.

I do not tell God what he can do and what he cannot do as you seem to attempt. When Jesus tells us he did not know the exact day and hour he would return I simply believe it. When the scriptures say God wrestled Jacob and Jacob prevailed I believe it. When God said he would go down to Sodom now to see if they had done according to the cry of it, and if not, he would know, I believe it.

Now, the scriptures say God cannot lie, so I believe God cannot lie. He put himself in that box, I simply believe it.

But you would argue with the Lord.

Jesus - But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Luke - That cannot be true Jesus, that is illogical. You are God and you must know everything at all times.

Jesus- But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Luke - No Lord, you are mistaken, let me correct you... :BangHead:

 

[Luke2427]

I do not tell God what he can do and what he cannot do as you seem to attempt.

Yes you do. You tell God he HAS to give every human being a choice.

When Jesus tells us he did not know the exact day and hour he would return I simply believe it.

So you believe the Father has a right hand, right?

You believe God has horns and eyeballs all over his head, right?

When the scriptures say God wrestled Jacob and Jacob prevailed I believe it.

So you believe God was really trying to win and Jacob was too much for Him?

When God said he would go down to Sodom now to see if they had done according to the cry of it, and if not, he would know, I believe it.

So you DON'T believe that the eyes of the Lord are in every place beholding the good and the evil?

Now, the scriptures say God cannot lie, so I believe God cannot lie. He put himself in that box, I simply believe it.

When did he put himself in that box? Before he made the earth? Could he lie at any point before he made the earth?

But you would argue with the Lord.

No, Winman. You just lack the understanding to see that there are different types of language that have to be interpreted different ways.

There is no greater ignorance when it comes to Scripture than to demand that everything in it be literal and that anyone who does not take it literally "argues with God."

 

[convicted1]

So, while incarnated in flesh...Jesus still had access to omnipresence?

Matthew 8:5-13
5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,

6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.

7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

John 4:47-53
47 When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son: for he was at the point of death.

48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

49 The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die.

50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.

51 And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told him, saying, Thy son liveth.

52 Then enquired he of them the hour when he began to amend. And they said unto him, Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.

53 So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

Here are two instances where Jesus, in the flesh, healed the sick from apparently miles away. He knew who they were and where they were at(omniscience), healed them that very moment(omnipotence), and by Him doing this, proved His omniprescence in that He healed them from afar off. Jesus in the flesh, was/is still God.

 

[Luke2427]

Matthew 8:5-13
5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,

6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.

7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.



John 4:47-53
47 When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son: for he was at the point of death.

48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

49 The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die.

50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.

51 And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told him, saying, Thy son liveth.

52 Then enquired he of them the hour when he began to amend. And they said unto him, Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.

53 So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.


Here are two instances where Jesus, in the flesh, healed the sick from apparently mile away. He knew who they were and where they were at(omniscience), healed them that very moment(omnipotence), and by Him doing this, proved His omniprescence in that He healed them from afar off.

Edited to withdraw my post here

______________

 

[convicted1]

Edited to withdraw my post here

______________

Hey Brother Luke, I was trying to support you, and hope I didn't confuse you in what I was trying to convey.

In those two passages I posted, I could see Jesus' omniscience(knowing who was sick and where they were), omniprescence and omnipotence(healing them from afar off), while He was in the flesh. There's nothing but logic flowing from those two passages in accordance to God's attributes of omnipotence,omniscience, and omniprescence.