Lamb's book of life

[Van]

Yet another post from another Calvinist devoid of content. Note this, not one Calvinist has shown the integrity to admit the ESV translation of Rev. 13:8 is in error. Not one.

They all agree that all the modern translations got it wrong and even though they are clueless as to why Rev 17:8 was not translated as "before" they just want to talk about the ESV Rev 13:8. Translation shopping is the sine qua non of false doctrine.

 

[jbh28]

Yet another post from another Calvinist devoid of content.

Yet another post from another non-Calvinist devoid of content.

 

[Siberian]

Lets see, the NIV determined what the Greek phrase meant, but that is rubbish. The NASB determined what the Greek phrase meant, but that is rubbish. Ditto for KJV, NKJV, HCSB, YLT, and a host of others, all rubbish, but the ESV, why that got it right.

Note the effort to discredit all modern translations, except the ESV, and yet never respond to the fact the ESV translates the same phrase, from the foundation of the world at Revelation 17:8. We are asked to accept this lone poster and ignore people like Dr. D. Wallace.

Calvinism is based on defending its false doctrines with logical fallacies such as descrediting anyone who holds a differing view. Rubbish indeed.

Actually, none of those translations, or anything I've read in Wallace, support your conclusion that Rev 13.8 refers to a period of time beginning with creation and ending at the End of the Age. That is what is at issue. Honestly, do you have any support for your novel idea besides your own postulations?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Calvinists commit logical fallacies. Therefore, Calvinism is a logical fallacy.

Thats a broad statement! Would you care to pinpoint some of our fallacies? Note I am a Calvinist so I'm interested in you claims.

 

[Siberian]

Thats a broad statement! Would you care to pinpoint some of our fallacies? Note I am a Calvinist so I'm interested in you claims.

It was written tongue in cheek. Read the quote to which I was responding.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yet another post from another Calvinist devoid of content. Note this, not one Calvinist has shown the integrity to admit the ESV translation of Rev. 13:8 is in error. Not one.

The only thing I noted is you have an obvious ax to grind. To the point that you have to attack the man. Then you attack a valid doctrine that has been supported by valid theologians for years. You are really nothing more than an insignificant bomb thrower. Why anyone engages in dialog with you, only heaven knows. The moderators need to take a closer look at you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It was written tongue in cheek. Read the quote to which I was responding.

Sorry....yea I just read the last few pages.

 

[Van]

Now yet another Calvinist calls me a "bomb thrower" and suggests my behavior is so bad the moderators should do something about it. Yet Calvinists deny they defend their false doctrine with logical fallacies such as shooting the messenger rather than responding to the message.

 

[Van]

If you look at the NET translation, and the Senior Editor of the NT is Dr. Wallace, you see "since the foundation of the world." So my view is not "novel" it is simply what scripture actually says.

Please consider carefully Matthew 13:35 and the "period of time" in view, when written in the OT, and then rewritten in the NT. The start of the period is unchanged, but the end shifts to the point of view of the author. John in Revelation 13:8 had the point of view of the end of the age.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Now yet another Calvinist calls me a "bomb thrower" and suggests my behavior is so bad the moderators should do something about it. Yet Calvinists deny they defend their false doctrine with logical fallacies such as shooting the messenger rather than responding to the message.

Ahhhhhh, aint you cute...LOL

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It was written tongue in cheek. Read the quote to which I was responding.

Siberian.....just ignore him......most of us do it now anyway.

 

[Van]

Yes, Siberian, listen to those you say ignore those who do not tickle your ears. Sounds like advice without merit, but that is one you alone must answer.

 

[Siberian]

If you look at the NET translation, and the Senior Editor of the NT is Dr. Wallace, you see "since the foundation of the world." So my view is not "novel" it is simply what scripture actually says.

Please consider carefully Matthew 13:35 and the "period of time" in view, when written in the OT, and then rewritten in the NT. The start of the period is unchanged, but the end shifts to the point of view of the author. John in Revelation 13:8 had the point of view of the end of the age.

Just to clarify, as I have said, translating the final phrase of Rev 13.8 as "since the foundation of the world" does not support your idea that the writer had in mind a period of time beginning at the foundation of the world and ending at the End of the age rather than a fixed point in time. Thus, your appeal to authority (which is a fallacy all by itself) is especially fallacious.

And I will leave it at that. Van, I have heard your arguments and find them completely wanting. Your treatment of Rev 13.8 invests too much on too little, and just saying it is true over and over again does not make it so. And your twisting of Ephesians 1.4 is pregnant with your views, not the original author's.

 

[Van]

The phrase "from [or since] the foundation of the world is found in several verses. They all refer to the time frame from creation to the author's point of view. In Revelation 13:8 the author's point of view is the end of the age.

Thus the time frame when names are entered appears to be during the lifetime of those chosen, otherwise the names would have been written or not written before the foundation of the world.

My understanding of Ephesians 1:4 is supported by many lines of evidence, none refuted, only dismissed.