Land for peace good?,,,hardly

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.


Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.


Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

 

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!


Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.


Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they [have] of the Jews:


1Th 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:


1Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

 

The same old argument. I am pre-mil, pre-trib, as stated many times, but we have no real hard evidence that today's political nation of Israel has any claim to God's promises to His people.

 

I am in complete agreement with you on that one brother. I am not pre-trib and pre-mill though.

 

Phil. 3:2-11, "Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead."

 

1. That is one of the reasons I support them, but not the only reason.

2. When you say you support Israel, do you mean you support the government, the people, or the land?

3. Of course my attitude is admirable. There are no Biblical reasons to support modern day Israel in an eschatological sense, no matter how many proof-text you quote out of context to support a silly pre-mil theory.

Joseph Botwinick

 

2 cents.

President Harry Truman recognized Israel as a nation. It is part of the settlement at the end of World War II.

The USA knows very well that the Arabs want to finish Hitler's agenda. We also know that the only thing like a homeland for Jews is Israel, which was dispersed by ancient Rome in 70 AD.

So we are undoing what Rome did for practical reasons that there is no other alternative.

Remember the Arabs are lying about their claims to the land under the League of Nations agreement.

The USA is the major supporter of Israel because we are the major victor in the cold war as well as World War II and we see an Israeli state as the practical settlement of those two wars and we are not fooled by Arab lies.

 

1. That is one of the reasons I support them, but not the only reason.

2. When you say you support Israel, do you mean you support the government, the people, or the land?

3. Of course my attitude is admirable. There are no Biblical reasons to support modern day Israel in an eschatological sense, no matter how many proof-text you quote out of context to support a silly pre-mil theory.

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]We support them at the national level. Nation to nation. We at the spiritual support them person to person, just as we should all people.

Gee Joseph, you don't have to get nasty with your point 3! </font>[/QUOTE]I too am a silly pre-mil, but I am not certain the the present State of Israel is the Israel of the Bible.

 

Roger,

You do seem to be the exception to the rule when it comes to pre-mills and Israel. BTW, what do you think Israel's role in end times prophecy will be?

Joseph Botwinick

 

I don't have a clue as to the present state of Isreal's role in end times prophecy. I'm not even sure is this State will have a role.

I am typically pre-trib, pre-mil in most other aspects. I believe that the primary purpose of the tribulation will be for God to deal with true Israel, but, alas, this is a politics forum .

 

What is true Israel?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Don't want to sidetrack the thread Joseph, sorry .

We are not going to agree on this one.

 

Fair enough. PM me please. I really would like to know.

Joseph Botwinick