"...Lawsuit Claims Black Men Have Lower Cognitive Skills..."

[Reynolds]

My friend, this website now SICKENS me, for its continual attacks on "lefites" and black people. I doub't if I will continue on here, as the threads and comments are VERY UNCHRISTLIKE!!! The God of the Bible is COLOURBLIND!

Color blind is now racist.

 

[Reynolds]

But these are not facts, even though the interpretation of the data matches your prejudices.

The "Heaton norms" are based on the socio-economic norms in a relatively small black population in San Diego. They do not take into account the differences in upbringing and advantages that more white people tend to have over black Americans. The NFL has taken this study and using it far beyond it's intended use, using it to prejudicially disadvantage black players simply based on "typical" results, using skin color, from a weak study.

I worked for a private school more than nearly 30 years ago, where most families had every financial advantage -- a very significant number of them were from millionaire families, and several from billionaire families (seriously). The tuition back in those days was about $30,000 a year for grade school students, not to mention thousands more for books, devices, and travel. Students had tutors, training for SAT/ACT tests, and highly personalized counseling to find student strengths and improve student weaknesses. A significant number of students had servants at home to handle all responsibilities, and students didn't need jobs to make ends meet or have plenty of spending money. For what it's worth, most of the students tended to be white or Asian, but the school also had a number of "scholarship" students who were brought in for ethnic diversity. They came from a background without many of those advantages, but when they were able to use the resources and assistance of the school, they excelled as well.

That's an extreme example, but the foolish idea that the level of melanin in one's skin is a general indicator of cognitive ability (note the spelling), is ridiculous.

How do you have "more than nearly"?
I agree with you. I do find it odd that during the great push for affirmative action, one of the major Dem reasons that regularly came out was "extreme inbreeding due to slavery". The left can't have it both ways. Can't be equal when it's beneficial and inferior when it's convenient.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Color blind is now racist.

well we know that the God of the Bible is!

 

[SavedByGrace]

WOW!!! I'm very impressed by such an intellectual & well thought out response!

simple answers for the stupid in life!

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

The problem with stereotypes is that they are often spectacularly wrong. Being judged according to stereotypes is not only insulting, it puts people in stereotyped groups at a disadvantage.


The point of the payouts is to compensate for present and future care. If a both a white man and a black man break their legs doing the same work with the same employer, does it stand to reason that the white man should be compensated more money for medical care since white persons in society, stereotypically, receive better medical care than black persons? Should the black man receive a lower quality of care? Should the black man receive less financial support since black persons, for economic reasons, stereotypically eat lower quality food, and therefore should have less compensation for living expenses?

Or, perhaps, let's turn that around. Should the white man with the broken leg receive less compensation than a black man since white families tend to have more generational wealth than black persons?

It really should not be about GROUPS or STEREOTYPES, but the level of impairment. Measuring impairment based on faulty studies (aka the "Heaton norms") is ridiculous.

Regarding stereotypes, those are mostly your inventions and references, not mine. But see below.

The hypotheticals are irrelevantly formulated. They are not analogous. There will be no acceptable standard where race emerges as a factor regardless of how legitimate, unless it favors the “right” one.

I’m in no way pushing for any studies as a standard in this case, or for certain payouts. There are too many factors involved that are unlikely to be measured, may not even be assessable.

With such a notoriously violent sport, these injuries should not be surprising. Saddening perhaps, but not surprising.

Still, people like to play such sports, and do a host of other very dangerous things. Some will say, "YOLO!" Others, "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

It is pretty ridiculous that the NFL has a cognitive measure for their brain injury settlement payout which undoubtably will perpetuate racial inequities regardless of how the algorithm is designed.

NFL concussion lawsuit payouts reveal how racial bias in science continues

Let’s not gloss over the critical roles doctors play in this. The NFL can’t do it without them.

Davenport and Henry’s legal complaint describes “a discriminatory testing regime” where doctors can apply different baseline standards:​

 

[atpollard]

All NFL players start out in College Football and all College Students take the SAT, so just compare SAT scores from when NFL players were College Freshmen as a metric for initial cognitive ability. Either there was a difference between Black and White players as Freshman or there was not. That will justify or refute the use of the system for evaluating retired players. Going forward, players should be tested at the start of their career and periodically during their career to compare "apples to apples" when determining progressive damage. It might also provide data for improving safety equipment.

 

[atpollard]

It really should not be about GROUPS or STEREOTYPES, but the level of impairment. Measuring impairment based on faulty studies (aka the "Heaton norms") is ridiculous.

How are they testing?

All broken legs are roughly equal (the breaks may be different, but the leg did the same thing for both players). If a Black player actually Graduated college and earned a degree in English Literature and a White player attended college to play football and had dyslexia so they read on a 4th grade level. If both players get tested and score the same on "reading ability", then the Black Literature Major has clearly suffered more injury and loss of function than the dyslexic White player.

Once again, the devil is in the details. However I agree that assuming that one player is naturally dumber than another is wrong, and deciding that one "mind" was more valuable than another is evil.

They really should be measuring loss and compensating for loss ... that requires individual before and after data. Absent that (like with retired players already injured) they should probably have one "NFL Average" baseline to measure from.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Let’s not gloss over the critical roles doctors play in this. The NFL can’t do it without them.

Davenport and Henry’s legal complaint describes “a discriminatory testing regime” where doctors can apply different baseline standards:​

Absolutely. There are many racist doctors out there that are harming their patients with long disproven incorrect ideas about differences between race. There are also many traditions/assumptions in the field of medicine that have racist origins that linger as well even among those who do not hold obviously racist views. Those cause harm to patients as well when they are not actively rooted out.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Absolutely. There are many racist doctors out there that are harming their patients with long disproven incorrect ideas about differences between race. There are also many traditions/assumptions in the field of medicine that have racist origins that linger as well even among those who do not hold obviously racist views. Those cause harm to patients as well when they are not actively rooted out.

No doubt some of that is involved. Medicine is always evolving, sometimes revolving.

But don’t be surprised if it turns out that there are any number of doctors who are driven by the money, not by racism or latent racism.

 

[Reynolds]

Absolutely. There are many racist doctors out there that are harming their patients with long disproven incorrect ideas about differences between race. There are also many traditions/assumptions in the field of medicine that have racist origins that linger as well even among those who do not hold obviously racist views. Those cause harm to patients as well when they are not actively rooted out.

Is looking for sickle cell in black patients racist?

 

[Gold Dragon]

Is looking for sickle cell in black patients racist?

No, considering it is a known inheritable genetic disorder that we even know the single base mutation responsible for. We also know it is disease that came out of Africa as an evolutionary adaptation for survival in malaria endemic regions.

Assuming that light skinned folks can’t have sickle cell and not thinking about it could be a racist assumption that could harm a patient.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Looks like there is going to be some resolution to this coming.

Judge orders NFL to address race-norming in concussion settlement

On Monday, Judge Brody issued a pair of orders— one dismissing the lawsuits brought against the league by former players Kevin Henry and Najeh Davenport as “an improper attack on the Settlement Agreement.” But Judge Brody also issued an order expressing concern about the practice of race-norming, which sets a lower cognitive bar for Black players, thus preventing them from gaining equal consideration when cognitive impairment due to head trauma is determined.

“We are glad that the Court has expressed concern about the NFL Concussion Settlement program’s ‘race-norming,’ since for the last four years it has been used to discriminate against Black former players and must be changed immediately,” said Cy Smith, an attorney at Zuckerman Spaeder, who represents Henry and Davenport. “However, we are deeply concerned that the Court’s proposed solution is to order the very parties who created this discriminatory system to negotiate a fix. The class of Black former players whom we represent must have a seat at the table and a transparent process, so that we are not back in the same place four years from now dealing with another fatally flawed settlement.”

The NFL has responded quickly with this statement.

NFL pledges to stop 'race-norming,' review past scores for potential race bias

According to the NFL, a panel of neuropsychologists formed recently to propose a new testing regime to the court includes two female and three Black doctors.

"We are committed to eliminating race-based norms in the program and more broadly in the neuropsychological community. The parties to the settlement have been working with the magistrate judge and have assembled the leading members of the neuropsychological industry to help identify alternative testing techniques," the league said in a statement issued Wednesday by spokesman Brian McCarthy. "Everyone agrees race-based norms should be replaced, but no off-the-shelf alternative exists and that’s why these experts are working to solve this decades-old issue. The replacement norms will be applied prospectively and retrospectively for those players who otherwise would have qualified for an award but for the application of race-based norms.

 

[Centrist]

But these are not facts, even though the interpretation of the data matches your prejudices.

The "Heaton norms" are based on the socio-economic norms in a relatively small black population in San Diego. They do not take into account the differences in upbringing and advantages that more white people tend to have over black Americans. The NFL has taken this study and using it far beyond it's intended use, using it to prejudicially disadvantage black players simply based on "typical" results, using skin color, from a weak study.

-snip-

That's an extreme example, but the foolish idea that the level of melanin in one's skin is a general indicator of cognitive ability (note the spelling), is ridiculous.

I dunno. There's a study in Detroit that can be played either way. When you look at the research done on average youth intelligence in one neighborhood, you could say it's race oriented. Sadly, it is. Because the youth are black, they have greater difficulty learning. Just the way it is, right?

But when you look at other persisting factors, it....does not change one bit. For example-
http://www.drawingdetroit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/slide041-624x468.jpg

and

http://www.drawingdetroit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/mostdangeroushouses11-624x530.jpg

....showing test results. It's real. You can't argue with science.

But is it really because of their race or color? Absolutely. You can get the environment details here-
Lead poisoning and the City of Detroit | Drawing Detroit

Yes it is very real, and yes they have an inferior mentality because the children are black. Except, it's not melenin or DNA related, it's because of the ignorance and stupidity of the city that put these families on the chopping block. Because they are black, the city has less regard for them and their safety. Because they are black their lives are somehow easier to bargain with.

As for the NFL, those guys aren't dumb. They get a stadium full of idiots to shell out millions of bucks to watch them enjoy playing their favorite game. I wish I was smart enough to get people to pay to watch me play with my Matchbox cars....