God chose us for salvation through faith in the truth. Stop denying the obvious.
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Layman's Confession of Faith
- Thread starter Van
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There were chosen through faith, therefore their faith was credited as righteousness, therefore the election occurred during their lifetime.
Complete fiction, see 2 Thessalonians 2:13 for the truth
This passage supports my view.
Fiction, saving faith is our faith, as worthless as it may be, that God credits as righteousness.
Fiction, saving faith is our faith, as worthless as it may be, that God credits as righteousness. Note Romans 4:4-5/24 is denied yet again.
Scripture refers to :"his faith" or "your faith" but never "you God instilled faith."
You and I understand the terms used as personal faith in the Scriptures are gifted by God for His purpose. For example we are given the measure of faith for the ministry purpose God established for us to do.
Van, hasn't gotten to that understanding.
He correctly sees human belief as innate in all. He correctly understands that such is corrupted by the fall.
HOWEVER, he doesn't see the fall as so corrupting that humankind cannot under their own volition express belief "unto salvation." That is the human can get God's attention and God looking at the credibility level of the human belief grants salvation.
Here then is the violation of Scriptures.
1) Not comprehending that when the Scripture teach the unbelieving are "condemned already" (John 3) that includes every attribute, also.
2) Nothing already condemned is redeemed for it is already been judged by God as unredeemed. Condemnation is not a process, it is the pronouncement of judgement.
3) Not presenting the salvation is complete and completely of God.
4) Not giving God the credit and honor as the author of the belief in the redeemed.
2) Nothing already condemned is redeemed for it is already been judged by God as unredeemed. Condemnation is not a process, it is the pronouncement of judgement.
3) Not presenting the salvation is complete and completely of God.
4) Not giving God the credit and honor as the author of the belief in the redeemed.
Therefore, no matter what correction of Van's misapplied Scriptures are made, he is incapable of reforming his view(s).
He actually believes that dust can pervert and prevent the authority of God in this matter of salvation in others, yet that same dust has the authority to attain salvation for itself.
Van's presentation seems most confused about how heaven is attained.
1) He has presented that the religious rulers could prevent entry into heaven, and yet has people of their own innate volition entering.
2) He has presented that human faith must be expressed and that is the catalyst for God's granting of salvation by "crediting our faith" and yet would such is not supposedly a human effort.
2) He has presented that human faith must be expressed and that is the catalyst for God's granting of salvation by "crediting our faith" and yet would such is not supposedly a human effort.
Yet another assertion of falsehood. And a dodge of the question, how were chosen to be given instilled faith if we were chosen through our existing faith. 2 Thessalonians 2:13
You err because we are not "chosen through our existing faith."
By not making dust completely condemned, you present some attribute as having ability to attain God's attention.
But God said that the unredeemed are already condemned, and that includes every attribute and ability.
Therefore, the faith spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is not human generated conjuring, but that very gift presented and endowed by the choosing of God that person to a specific purpose.
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God credits our faith, therefore our faith exists before God credits it.
Next we get a bunny trail, of course the lost are unredeemed and condemned. Not an issue.
Folks, consider the absurdity of saying "his faith" or "your faith" was mistaken because the lost cannot have faith. And so it goes.
Did you line out and delete Romans 4:4-5 and 4:24?
Yes, God must allow the person to believe rather than harden their hearts against the gospel. Romans 11.
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