You seem to have never studied individual election. For example, it is conditional, through or based on faith in the truth.
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Layman's Confession of Faith
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Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Chapter XX. CREATION OF MAN.
Chapter XXI. PROVIDENCE.
Chapter XXII. THE FALL OF MAN.
Chapter XXIII. THE EFFECTS OF THE SIN OF ADAM.
Chapter XXIV. THE HEADSHIP OF ADAM.
Chapter XXV. CHRIST IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.
Deflection,a smoke screen without a shred of truth. God elects individuals for salvation, based on crediting their faith as righteousness.
Prove your theory with scripture. If you can't it must not be true.
MB
The only way you try to prove anything is by adding your nonsense to God's word.
MB
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Prove that becoming born again is not by man's will, but by God's will alone?
" He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." ( John 1:11-13 )
Notice what was not influencing God to make a person born again...blood ( inheritance ), our own will, or the will of men.
" But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." ( Titus 3:4-7 ).
Notice that salvation is according to His mercy...not any work of righteousness which we have done.
Is belief a work of righteousness?
Actually, it's a work of God for someone to believe on Christ ( John 6:29 ).
" Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." ( James 1:18 ).
Notice that it was of God's own will that He "begat" ( birthed ) the believer with His word.
Being born again is by God's will...not man's will.
He works everything according to the counsel of His own will ( Daniel 4:35, Ephesians 1:11 ), not man's will.
That includes salvation.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
"reprobate silver shall men call them, because the Lord hath rejected them", (Jeremiah 6:30).
1 Samuel 15:26, "And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel."
1 Samuel 10:24; "And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the LORD hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king."
How can someone who elects themselves be an expert on election and not teach that God's Activity of rejection is the opposite of God's Activity of election?
Yes His will and good pleasure is to elect those whose faith He credits as righteousness.
Can you not grasp you already answered?
As I suspected, you have no knowledge of even the passages that address individual election. Why not James 2, 2 Thess. 2, 1 Cor. 1, 2 Peter 2, and on and on.
His will and good pleasure is to elect those whose faith He credits as righteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:13
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Note the out and out denial that we were chosen based on God crediting our faith in the truth.
Beware
Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 2:10 AM Pacific.
This thread will be closed sometime after 2:10 AM Pacific.
The strawman argument (we elect ourselves) is a waste of time, and indicates this poster defends false doctrine with false assertions.
His goal seems to be to post page after page to cause the thread to be closed due to length.
This thread needs to be put back on track. All the posts by one Calvinist after another deny one scripture after another. Lets return to what scripture actually says:
Of God and the Holy Trinity – One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19
Of God's Decree- God before creation chose to bring about creation for the purpose of creating mankind for His glory, Isaiah 43:7
Of Creation –In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, Genesis 1:1
Of Divine Providence – God made everything and sustains everything and brings about the conditions useful for His purpose of creation, including altering the course of human events by intervention, Colossians 1:17; Deuteronomy 30:19.
Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the punishment thereof – Adam volitionally sinned, knowing God said not to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. This resulted in Adam being separated from God, i.e. kicked out of the garden, and his corruption, i.e. his eyes were opened. Genesis 3:7; 17-24
Of God's Covenant – God’s eternal covenant was to provide eternal life for those of His choosing, based on crediting their faith as righteousness, keeping His covenant of love. James 2:5
Of Christ the Mediator – Jesus is our mediator, our high priest who sacrificed Himself, becoming the propitiation for the whole world, interceding for those given to Him, taking whatever was against us out of the way. Hebrews 9:11-15
Of Free Will – We make plans but God directs our steps, thus God allows us autonomous thoughts and actions, but only so far as He allows. He can and does intervene and restrict our options, such as hardening hearts to cause some to continue to reject Christ for a time. Proverbs 16:9, Romans 11:7
Of Effectual Calling – I deny the doctrine of Irresistible Grace, men of flesh, unless hardened, can hear and understand and respond to the milk of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 2:14 – 3:3.
Of Justification – refers to being made “right” with God, thus our “sin burden” is removed. This occurs when we are spiritually placed in Christ, and undergo the circumcision of Christ, Romans 5:18, Colossians 2:11.
Of Adoption – Our adoption refers to being made physical children of God when we are bodily resurrected at Christ’s second coming, Romans 8:23.
Of Sanctification – Salvation is presented in scripture as having three phrases, Positional Sanctification referring to when we are set apart in Christ 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Progressive Sanctification, referring to our life after being put in Christ where we strive to become more Christ like, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8, and Ultimate Sanctification, our Adoption at His second coming, 1 Thessalonians 5:23.
Of Saving Faith - Faith God credits as righteousness, being from the heart, fully committed and devoted to Christ, having more to do with our love of Christ than believing the right doctrines, Romans 4:4-5; 24.
Of Repentance unto Life and Salvation – God grants repentance via His revelatory grace, i.e. providing us with an understanding of God’s perfection and our sins and their consequences. When we repent we give glory to God. 2 Timothy 2:24-26; Revelation 16:9.
Of Good Works – Before salvation, all our “good works” are as filthy rags to God, but upon being born anew, created for good works, we can earn eternal rewards if we build upon the foundation of Christ according to His will, Isaiah 64:6; Ephesians 2:10.
Of the Perseverance of the Saints – Once born anew, we cannot undo. 1 Peter 1:3-5.
Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation – If we have been born anew, our life changes, and we exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Thus, when we meet for communion, we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith, and if our heart does not convict us, we are to take the bread and the wine in remembrance of our Savior, 2 Corinthians 13:5-6.
Of the Law of God – Under the Old Covenant, under the Law of Moses, the Law acted as a tutor, leading us to a knowledge of our sins and our need of a Savior, Galatians 3:24. Once born again, under the Law of Christ (also Called the Law of Liberty) we are to strive to follow Christ, and keep His commandments, 1 Corinthians 9:21. Primarily, we are to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and love our neighbors as ourselves, Matthew 22:36-40.
Of the Gospel and the Extent of Grace thereof – The only unpardonable sin is to reject Christ. Other than that, God will forgive your sins and remember them no more forever. Ephesians 1:7
Of Christian Liberty and Liberty of Conscience – As ambassadors of Christ we are to be His witness to the world, thus being careful to not be a stumbling block to others. Romans 14:20-23
Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day – The Law of Moses has gone away, and with it the requirement to keep the Sabbath, but we are to set apart a time for worship and reflection, and study and meditation, and Sundays are used by many Christians. 2 Corinthians 3:2-11
Of Lawful Oaths and Vows – We are not to swear by God or anything else. Matthew 5:34
Of the Civil Magistrate – God has established governance, and so we are to submit provided that in doing so would not result in violating a clear command of God. In the military the concept is known as following “lawful” orders. No massacring women and children because the officer said so. Romans 13:1-2
Of Marriage - Marriage is the union of a man and a woman, both committed to Christ.
Of the Church – Church refers to either the local temporal assembly of professing believers, made up of both wheat and tares, or to the general assembly, the bride and body of Christ, made up of all who have been made perfect by being born anew.
Of the Communion of Saints – When we, believers, gather together we are to remember our indebtedness to Christ who gave his body, broken for us, and his blood, shed for us, and to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith.
Of Baptism – Christ using the agency of the Holy Spirit, baptizes us to the body of Christ spiritually, and then seals us in Christ with the Holy Spirit. Christ commanded we illustrate this spiritual baptism, and make a public declaration of our faith in Christ, thus we are to be water baptized and water baptize all who profess faith in Christ .
Of the State of Man after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead – When we physically die, our spirit/soul departs and goes either to heaven to be present with the Lord, or to Hades to suffer torment and await the resurrection of the dead. At the great white throne judgment, all the spirits in Hades will be reunited with physical bodies and be gathered for judgment. Their names, not being found in the Lamb’s book of life, they are put into the Lake of Fire where they suffer and die the second death.
Of the Last Judgment – Those of us whose spirits go to be with the Lord, are also united with our glorified physical bodies at Christ’s second coming, and we are judged, with Christ awarding rewards for faithful service if we have built upon the foundation of Christ with material of eternal value, i.e. helped save lives.
Of God and the Holy Trinity – One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19
Of God's Decree- God before creation chose to bring about creation for the purpose of creating mankind for His glory, Isaiah 43:7
Of Creation –In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, Genesis 1:1
Of Divine Providence – God made everything and sustains everything and brings about the conditions useful for His purpose of creation, including altering the course of human events by intervention, Colossians 1:17; Deuteronomy 30:19.
Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the punishment thereof – Adam volitionally sinned, knowing God said not to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. This resulted in Adam being separated from God, i.e. kicked out of the garden, and his corruption, i.e. his eyes were opened. Genesis 3:7; 17-24
Of God's Covenant – God’s eternal covenant was to provide eternal life for those of His choosing, based on crediting their faith as righteousness, keeping His covenant of love. James 2:5
Of Christ the Mediator – Jesus is our mediator, our high priest who sacrificed Himself, becoming the propitiation for the whole world, interceding for those given to Him, taking whatever was against us out of the way. Hebrews 9:11-15
Of Free Will – We make plans but God directs our steps, thus God allows us autonomous thoughts and actions, but only so far as He allows. He can and does intervene and restrict our options, such as hardening hearts to cause some to continue to reject Christ for a time. Proverbs 16:9, Romans 11:7
Of Effectual Calling – I deny the doctrine of Irresistible Grace, men of flesh, unless hardened, can hear and understand and respond to the milk of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 2:14 – 3:3.
Of Justification – refers to being made “right” with God, thus our “sin burden” is removed. This occurs when we are spiritually placed in Christ, and undergo the circumcision of Christ, Romans 5:18, Colossians 2:11.
Of Adoption – Our adoption refers to being made physical children of God when we are bodily resurrected at Christ’s second coming, Romans 8:23.
Of Sanctification – Salvation is presented in scripture as having three phrases, Positional Sanctification referring to when we are set apart in Christ 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Progressive Sanctification, referring to our life after being put in Christ where we strive to become more Christ like, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8, and Ultimate Sanctification, our Adoption at His second coming, 1 Thessalonians 5:23.
Of Saving Faith - Faith God credits as righteousness, being from the heart, fully committed and devoted to Christ, having more to do with our love of Christ than believing the right doctrines, Romans 4:4-5; 24.
Of Repentance unto Life and Salvation – God grants repentance via His revelatory grace, i.e. providing us with an understanding of God’s perfection and our sins and their consequences. When we repent we give glory to God. 2 Timothy 2:24-26; Revelation 16:9.
Of Good Works – Before salvation, all our “good works” are as filthy rags to God, but upon being born anew, created for good works, we can earn eternal rewards if we build upon the foundation of Christ according to His will, Isaiah 64:6; Ephesians 2:10.
Of the Perseverance of the Saints – Once born anew, we cannot undo. 1 Peter 1:3-5.
Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation – If we have been born anew, our life changes, and we exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Thus, when we meet for communion, we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith, and if our heart does not convict us, we are to take the bread and the wine in remembrance of our Savior, 2 Corinthians 13:5-6.
Of the Law of God – Under the Old Covenant, under the Law of Moses, the Law acted as a tutor, leading us to a knowledge of our sins and our need of a Savior, Galatians 3:24. Once born again, under the Law of Christ (also Called the Law of Liberty) we are to strive to follow Christ, and keep His commandments, 1 Corinthians 9:21. Primarily, we are to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and love our neighbors as ourselves, Matthew 22:36-40.
Of the Gospel and the Extent of Grace thereof – The only unpardonable sin is to reject Christ. Other than that, God will forgive your sins and remember them no more forever. Ephesians 1:7
Of Christian Liberty and Liberty of Conscience – As ambassadors of Christ we are to be His witness to the world, thus being careful to not be a stumbling block to others. Romans 14:20-23
Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day – The Law of Moses has gone away, and with it the requirement to keep the Sabbath, but we are to set apart a time for worship and reflection, and study and meditation, and Sundays are used by many Christians. 2 Corinthians 3:2-11
Of Lawful Oaths and Vows – We are not to swear by God or anything else. Matthew 5:34
Of the Civil Magistrate – God has established governance, and so we are to submit provided that in doing so would not result in violating a clear command of God. In the military the concept is known as following “lawful” orders. No massacring women and children because the officer said so. Romans 13:1-2
Of Marriage - Marriage is the union of a man and a woman, both committed to Christ.
Of the Church – Church refers to either the local temporal assembly of professing believers, made up of both wheat and tares, or to the general assembly, the bride and body of Christ, made up of all who have been made perfect by being born anew.
Of the Communion of Saints – When we, believers, gather together we are to remember our indebtedness to Christ who gave his body, broken for us, and his blood, shed for us, and to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith.
Of Baptism – Christ using the agency of the Holy Spirit, baptizes us to the body of Christ spiritually, and then seals us in Christ with the Holy Spirit. Christ commanded we illustrate this spiritual baptism, and make a public declaration of our faith in Christ, thus we are to be water baptized and water baptize all who profess faith in Christ .
Of the State of Man after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead – When we physically die, our spirit/soul departs and goes either to heaven to be present with the Lord, or to Hades to suffer torment and await the resurrection of the dead. At the great white throne judgment, all the spirits in Hades will be reunited with physical bodies and be gathered for judgment. Their names, not being found in the Lamb’s book of life, they are put into the Lake of Fire where they suffer and die the second death.
Of the Last Judgment – Those of us whose spirits go to be with the Lord, are also united with our glorified physical bodies at Christ’s second coming, and we are judged, with Christ awarding rewards for faithful service if we have built upon the foundation of Christ with material of eternal value, i.e. helped save lives.
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