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Lazarus sleeps

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by wopik, Apr 26, 2005.

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  1. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    SOUL 101 -- People don't have a soul, they are a soul ----- "man became a living nephesh (soul)" - Genesis 2:7.
     
    #21 wopik, Apr 30, 2005
  2. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    And the soul doesn't die or sleep, it departs the body at death. Maybe a rudimentary study of body and soul would help you understand that fact.

    You're very keen to pass over wherever the Bible cripples your belief. Genesis is clear that God created man from the dust of the ground, which is our BODY. He then breathed life into that BODY which is our SOUL. The BODY returns to the ground; the SOUL returns to God. Simple, fundamental, ABC, 123.
     
    #22 Gershom, Apr 30, 2005
  3. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    wopik,

    I am not going to chase rabbits through the woods. We can discuss nephesh once you have dealt with the New Testament. What I have presented is what the New Testament clearly teaches. You need to deal with the points I have raised from the Bible.

    Martin.
     
    #23 Martin, Apr 30, 2005
  4. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    That's what the preachers would like us to think. Perhaps they never read Ezekiel --

    Ezek. (NKJV)
    18:4
    Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.


    18:4 (Good News Translation & Holman Christian Standard Bible)
    Look, every life belongs to Me. The life of the father is like the life of the son-both belong to Me. The person who sins is the one who will die.


    ---------------------------------------------

    Two elements make up the nephesh. The body (from the dust) + neshamah (force of life from God) = living nephesh.

    http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05397&version=kjv -neshamah


    God was not placing an immortal entity in the dust from the earth, but he was supplying the energy or force that causes consciousness -- a living soul.

    http://reslight.addr.com/neshamah.html

    [ April 30, 2005, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: wopik ]
     
    #24 wopik, Apr 30, 2005
  5. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    People AND animals are living souls, -- living nephesh:

    Genesis 1:21: "And God created great whales [sea creatures], and every living CREATURE [nephesh="soul"] that moves, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind..."

    The same Hebrew word, nephesh, is used to describe lower life forms, such as bottom-dwelling sea creatures; to describe all kinds of animals, from oxen to dogs, and to describe many aspects of living things.
     
    #25 wopik, Apr 30, 2005
  6. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    1 Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


    Just read your Bible and trust it.
     
    #26 Gershom, Apr 30, 2005
  7. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    "Rather fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell" - is proof that the soul is destructible and therefore, not immortal.


    "soul" (Greek, psuche) = LIFE

    This passage is cited as the foundation proof that man is really an indestructible soul clothed with an earthly body.

    The Greek word, "psuche" translated "soul" in this verse has the meaning of "life".

    In Matt. 16:25, "psuche" is translated "life": "For whosoever shall save his life ["psuche"] shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life ["psuche"] for my sake shall find it."


    Men may kill your body and take your life, but this is only a temporary situation, God will give us life again. We are to fear God who can destroy us - body and life [soul] PERMANENTLY.


    http://www.bbie.org/WrestedScriptures/B01Immortality/Matthew10v28.html
     
    #27 wopik, Apr 30, 2005
  8. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    God's power is not in question. Of course our Creator is able to both preserve and destroy as He sees fit. The reason for posting the Scripture was to show you that the body and soul are separate. Now, please stop hopping all over the place.
     
    #28 Gershom, Apr 30, 2005
  9. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Right.

    The body (from the dust) + neshamah (force of life from God) = living nephesh.

    This is the same "formula" for humans and animals (Genesis 7:21,22).


    -------------------------------------------

    The soul (person) can SIN - Ezekiel 18: 4,20.

    The soul is not immortal.


    "According to the Bible, a human being exists as a whole unit and remains also as a whole person in the hand of God after death. A person is not at any time viewed as a bodiless soul."


    http://www.studylight.org/dic/hbd/view.cgi?number=T5974
     
    #29 wopik, Apr 30, 2005
  10. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    wopik,

    Why do you continue to avoid the Word of God?

    Where is your response to the Scriptures I pointed out?

    I will not chase rabbits through the woods. I want a discussion on the important Scriptures. A discussion you have, to this point, avoided.

    This avoidance is a typical tactic of those who promote false teachings. They avoid the Scriptures that directly deal with the issue they are addressing while focusing on Scriptures that have little/nothing to do with the issue. They also like to get into vain philisophical discussions that enable them to avoid the direct, and simple, statements of Scripture.

    wopik, this is what you are doing.

    Now will you deal directly with the Scriptures I have presented? Or is it easier to avoid the Word of God?

    I await your reply.

    Martin.

    [ April 30, 2005, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Martin ]
     
    #30 Martin, Apr 30, 2005
  11. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    #31 wopik, Apr 30, 2005
  12. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    You are very confused. Skipping all over the place, jumping from one thought that is rebuked, then to another, leaving unanswered questions, etc. etc.
     
    #32 Gershom, Apr 30, 2005
  13. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Yes, Gershom. We move very quickly through Scripture. The truth is spread out all over the place.


    You must still believe the soul is immortal.

    Paul said, 276 souls (people - psuche) were on his ship - Acts 27:37.


    --------------------------------

    psuche is not always translated "soul".

    Sometimes it is translated into English as: "life" 40 times,

    "mind" 3 times,

    and "heart", "heartily", "us", and "you" once each.
     
    #33 wopik, Apr 30, 2005
  14. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    So???? As my Gram would sometimes say, "what's that got to do with the price of eggs?"
     
    #34 Gershom, Apr 30, 2005
  15. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ______________________________

    Once again you have ignored Scripture in favor of vain philosophy.

    Are you, or are you not, going to deal with the Scriptures?

    Again I am not chasing your rabbits through the forests. Please deal with the Scriptures (and points) that I have raised in my now TWO posts refuting the vile heresy of soul sleep.

    Martin.
     
    #35 Martin, Apr 30, 2005
  16. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Gershom,

    It proves that Paul is talking about people----not immortal souls
     
    #36 wopik, Apr 30, 2005
  17. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #37 Gershom, Apr 30, 2005
  18. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Martin,

    Are you talking about Lazarus and the rich man?


    According to the story, The rich man died - slept [eyes closed] -- Luke 16:22.

    The next time we read about the rich man, his eyes are OPEN - "he lift up his eyes" (Lk 16:33) - in his grave [hell, hades].

    (And many of them that sleep in the dust of the Earth shall AWAKE [eyes open] - Daniel 12:2.)



    The rich man is resurrected and sees Abraham and Lazarus - immortal - in the Kingdom of God, and he himself still mortal and ready to be thrown into the Lake of Fire - to be destroyed for all eternity.

    This is the "great gulf" that exists between the rich man and Abraham, Lazarus (Lk 16:26).

    The latter two are immortal and in the Kingdom. But the rich man is still mortal, and will soon be burned up in the Lake of Fire -- like so much fat or chaff (Ps. 37:20 / Matt 3:12).
     
    #38 wopik, Apr 30, 2005
  19. untangled

    untangled Member

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    Wopik,

    I see you are a follower of Doug Batchelor? I wonder if it was you that spammed me the other day asking me to rethink my theology. Its hard to believe that a Baptist would go along with that theology. Do you even attend a Baptist church? It seems that you, like Mr. Batchelor take a few verses and yell "soul sleep". I guess Paul longed to depart so he could become a corpse. Hmmmm.....
     
    #39 untangled, Apr 30, 2005
  20. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    untangled

    "For I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.” ---Phillipians 1:23-24 NAS / 2Timothy 4:6-8.


    Notice, Paul did not say where he would go or when he would be with Christ.

    There is not one word mentioning heaven here, nor is there one word saying that he would be with Christ immediately.


    In 2Timothy 4:6-8 Paul wrote:
    Paul explains what he meant by being with Christ. He does not receive his reward immediately at death. But there is laid up a crown of righteousness which the Lord shall give him at that day. What day? At Christ's appearing----His second coming.


    In Isaiah 40:10 we notice this same day mentioned: "Behold, the Lord God will come….behold, his reward is with him…." See also Revelation 22: 12.


    To die is gain! In death, there is no knowledge of passing time (Eccl. 9: 5,6,10; Ps. 146: 4). THE NEXT MOMENT IS THE RESURRECTION!
     
    #40 wopik, Apr 30, 2005
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