Lazarus sleeps

do you just ignore this stuff? </font>[/QUOTE]wopik refuses to answer any questions except he believes in sleep, sleeep, sleeep, slee---eep.

The heresy of soul sleep is refuted by the Apostle Paul in the following Scripture:

2 Corinthians 5:1-8
1. For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3. If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7. (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8. We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Verse 6 and 8 rules out any nonsense about soul sleep until the resurrection of the body since Paul states in Verse 6: whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord and in Verse 8: that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

If that doesn't satisfy you try the words of our Lord Himself:

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Now there is no Biblical record that the thief was resurrected, in fact the converse is true [1 corinthians 15].

Then fron the Old Testament we have these words:

Ecclesiastes 12:1-7
1. Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;
2. While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:
3. In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened,
4. And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low;
5. Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6. Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

You've been answered, wopik. Time and again. Now, would you be so kind and forthcoming as to answer what has been asked of you:

Fess up, wopik.

 

Answer, wopik. What are you afraid of?

 

Lazarus was dead. But only his body was dead. Please note that this passage in its entirety states that Lazarus was sick. Now was his soul sick? No! His body was sick and his body died. Nothing is said in that passage about the soul. Nothing is said about waking his soul.

Also, in your quote from the Apostle Paul [1 Thessalonians 4:15] please note that he is speaking of the resurrection of the body. You ignore verse 14 which states: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. What is Jesus Christ going to bring with Him. He will bring the souls of the Saints who have been in His presence since the death of their bodies, consistent with the passages of Scripture mentioned below. The word sleep is simply a word that Scripture uses to indicate the death of the body.

No one is arguing that the body is not dead and will remain dead until the Resurrection. However I have quoted passages from both the Old and New Testaments showing that the soul [spirit] of the true believers goes into the presence of God upon the death of the body.

Since the Bible does not contradict itself you must explain the passage from 2 Corinthians 5:1-8, particularly verse 8 and also the passage from Ecclesiastes and the promise of Jesus Christ to the thief. If you are going to prove soul sleep you must explain away these passages. You cannot do so.

Finally I refer you to the Scripture describing the death of Stephen [Acts 7:59, 60] And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Please notice that Stephen prayed Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. Scripture tells us that he fell asleep, that is his body died. His spirit [soul] went to be with the Lord Jesus Christ, and so it is with every Saint who dies.

Soul sleep is an invention of the carnal mind. There is not one passage of Scripture that states that the soul or spirit of man sleeps upon the death of his physical being. If there is, prove me wrong!

 

I know very little about JW’s or SDA so don’t even go there! I attend a Baptist church because the people there have beliefs most similar to mine which I attained by reading scripture not by accepting traditions. The people at my church consider the bible the ultimate authority and are not afraid to search for understanding of the truth or resort to denominational name calling or finger pointing towards someone that is trying to gain knowledge; which btw is a sign of fear in the use of intimidation to achieve comfort in their traditional man made theologies instead of diligently searching for the truth.

That being said, as a bible student I am curious as to the different states of our bodies and when they get that way. So I have some questions so I can know where you guys are at:

1) First are we not born with two bodies, a flesh and a spiritual?
2) Do we take on death in our spiritual body in order to be reborn into Christ, therefore receiving a new spiritual body in Him?
3) In order to be present with the Lord we must be raised up in our spiritual (incorrupt) body, but has this body been clothed yet, received immortality, or free from the second death before the JSOC? Could these spiritual bodies be in different states some already having received immortality?
4) If raised up in an incorrupt, but still mortal (liable to die the second death) body where is it at?
5) Is it the same for everyone that believes? What does 1 Cor 15:51 mean???
6) Is the meaning of celestial and terrestrial speaking of only spiritual bodies that are in different places or do you think it’s referring back to flesh and spiritual?
7) Do people think they’re going to be raised up in some dissolving, rotting piece of flesh later or even have anymore to do with that body after they die in the flesh?
8) I know you guys aren’t going to like this one, but could the different states of the spiritual body be being discussed in Rev 20 when speaking about first and second resurrections?

That’s right, I’m confused!!! I don’t think anybody really has all the answers, but I’m wondering why you guys are talking about this “sleep” thing without discussing the “bodies”???

 

wopik,

Genesis 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin

Notice her soul departed, not died. When something departs, it leaves. Duh.

Jesus said, "Today you will be with me in paradise."
Oh... wait... that's right... you use the New World Translation (Jehovah's "false" Witness).

The rich man and Lazarus; Moses (with Elijah) on the Mount; "gave up the ghost," etc. All testify of the soul continuing on after the death of the body.

You not only teach falsehood, but you seem to love the dark, not willing to answer (bring to the light) the inquiries of your religious background.

 

wopik, who believes the falsehood of soul sleep, must come up with yet another falsehood as a means to make an attempt to prove his false teaching. Here is what he says:

wopik says:

But the Bible says different, and clearly teaches a distinction between man's body/spirit/soul.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead

The BODY is dead when it is without the SPIRIT.

2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say , and willing rather to be absent from the body

What does it mean to be ABSENT FROM THE BODY, WOPIK? Does our soul leave our body and go sleep on the corner somwhere? What does it mean to be ABSENT FROM THE BODY?

More that proves "soul sleep" is dog dirt:

I Kings 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Luke 8:55 (Darby) And her spirit returned, and immediately she rose up; and he commanded something to eat to be given to her.

Our BODIES sleep, not our souls:

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose

Jesus told the malefactor:

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

And of course, Luke 16.

 

And how about answering the questions:

 

Neither Jesus nor Paul taught your doctrine of "soul sleep." The BODY sleeps, not the soul.

Let me ask you: What does it mean, since you say a soul sleeps with the death of a body, to be "absent from the body"? If, like you teach, the soul does not depart, but "sleeps", when, if ever, is it "absent from the body?"

 

Who says God can't destroy the soul? Of course He can.

 

BTW, that verse (Matt 10:28) was to show you that God makes a distinction between the two.