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Least in the Kingdom greater than John. Why?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Ben Elohim, Feb 23, 2005.

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  1. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    Funny that you are avoiding the thread on Romans 9 johnp.

    I guess we can only conclude that your God is not Sovereign because you still sin and he is unable to stop you.

    And now how will you explain that there were people born again into the Kingdom of God before John came announcing the arrival of the Kingdom of God and what were these people doing sacrificing animals for their sins if indeed they were washed in the blood of Jesus.
     
    #21 Ben Elohim, Feb 24, 2005
  2. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    What's this ILUVLIGHT,"Poor JohnP" Pity?

    What can I do about that man? The darkness does not comprehend the light. That is why it is incoherent to you. Why complain to me what Jesus explained was a fact. That the dead cannot. That the Spirit of God indwells me I have no doubts. If you like I accept your reply that you have no doubts either about yourself. I am not here to persuade you but just to infect your mind with God's word. He will do as He pleases with that and either soften you or harden you. It's that simple.

    What trust have you placed in Christ? You place your trust in your own faith and that is works and you will die for it forever. That is what my God says.
    What trust have you placed in Christ and what assurance have you, trust yourself do you? The path is narrow whichever one you take. Jesus died for my sins you will need to be perfect to go your way.

    johnp.
     
    #22 johnp., Feb 24, 2005
  3. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    Some other things for you to think about johnp:

    In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a Kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that Kingdom will not be left for another people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." (Daniel 2:44).

    Daniel preached the Kingdom of God was a future thing that would arrive with the Messiah.

    The Kingdom of God was a new reality for the people of Israel and this is why John was calling them to repentance, to prepare them for their coming King. Jesus also taught many parables to tell the disciples what the Kingdom of God would be like. He also taught the Pharisees that if he drove out demons by the Holy Spirit the Kingdom was upon them and they should not be looking here and there for it because it would be in their midst (Mt 12:28; Luke 17:21). The Kingdom was not a place, but Kingship reign of God on the earth and Jesus taught his disciples to pray to the Father, "your Kingdom come." He taught the people that the Kingdom had been forcing its way into the world since John the Baptist began preaching (Mt 11:12). When Jesus rose from the dead, he tells the disciples God have given him authority over all heaven and earth. And then we find the disciples went out preaching the good news of the Kingdom of God (Acts 8:12; 14:22; 19:8; 20:25; 28:23,31). The Kingdom of God was a brand new reality.


    The Keys of the Kingdom

    At Caesarea Philippi, Jesus asks his disciples a very important question and Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ. Here Jesus tells Peter he will build his church (future tense) and he WILL give Peter the keys to the Kingdom (future tense). We see Jesus alluding to a similar idea at Luke 22:29. In the upper room the risen Jesus gives them authority when he breathes upon them and said, "As the Father sent me, now I send you. Receive the Holy Spirit." And at Matthew 28:18-19, the risen Jesus tells them he has been given all authority on heaven and earth and commissions his disciples to baptize all nations in his name, that is, they are to gather people into the Kingdom of God.
     
    #23 Ben Elohim, Feb 24, 2005
  4. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Ben.

    I wanted to completely destroy you so I was waiting till things quietened down a bit so I could concentrate properly if you don't mind. That's all! :cool:
    Conclude what you want it will not be a conclusion garnered from my statements. God sees that.
    I guess we can only conclude that your God is not Sovereign because you still sin and he is unable to stop you.
    Double edge swords matey have a tendency to cut both ways. Why do you think you know what God wants. You get above yourself don't you?
    Your tin pot god can't stop you doing what you like. It does not want to does it? Your fallen nature controls you does it not?
    My God gets you to do it and then condemns you to a burning everlasting torture program that only someone totally of His mind would think of and you know what, it's is real? And it's going to hurt like Hell forever. That's my God. The lover of my soul. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in my heart to give me the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
    I'm sorted! For He chose me before the creation of the world. In love
    PS 50:21 These things you have done and I kept silent; you thought I was altogether like you. But I will rebuke you and accuse you to your face. 22 "Consider this, you who forget God, or I will tear you to pieces, with none to rescue: 23 He who sacrifices thank offerings honors me, and he prepares the way so that I may show him the salvation of God."

    Do you not make offerings to the Lord?
    But we have been through this. You did not accept my answer the first time we spoke on this but ignored it.

    johnp.
     
    #24 johnp., Feb 24, 2005
  5. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    Would you care to now define "Sovereignty" with respect to God?
     
    #25 Ben Elohim, Feb 24, 2005
  6. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Take it as absolute.

    johnp.
     
    #26 johnp., Feb 24, 2005
  7. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    Please define Sovereignty johnp. Explain what is necessary for God to be Sovereign.

    And back it up with Scriptural evidence please.
     
    #27 Ben Elohim, Feb 24, 2005
  8. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Despotism. 2a: a system of government in which the ruler has unlimited power : ABSOLUTISM, AUTOCRACY <the conception of government by naked, overwhelming power alone -- power itself ungoverned by anything beyond the whims of its possessors ... "despotism." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (25 Feb. 2005).

    2 Peter 2:1. :cool:

    johnp.
     
    #28 johnp., Feb 24, 2005
  9. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    So Sovereignty to you means that God is all powerful is that correct?

    If so, then you need to explain why Christians are still sinning and he cannot stop them.
     
    #29 Ben Elohim, Feb 24, 2005
  10. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Sovereignty mean He's in charge of every single event as it's first cause. In a continuous process He moves everything into the place that He wants it to be. Everything you think and say are coming from the Lord.
    My God gets you to do it and then condemns you to a burning everlasting torture program that only someone totally of His mind would think of and you know what, it's is real? And it's going to hurt like Hell forever.
    You really don't read my posts do you? You are fixed in some rut of your own making and you expect some response and you don't get that from me. Am I right?
    There is a response from me that makes my Calvinist brothers look like moderate liberals and you do not jump on it? Where are you coming from? It was in my last post.
    I won't let you get away with this slapdash behaviour when we get onto Romans nine.

    He wants sin.

    johnp.
     
    #30 johnp., Feb 24, 2005
  11. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    And where did you arrive at this definition of Sovereignty johnp?

    God wants sin? Whew. That pretty much says it all doesn't it johnp?
     
    #31 Ben Elohim, Feb 24, 2005
  12. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    And where did you arrive at this definition of Sovereignty johnp? Why it was in the Kingdom of God Mr Ben. :cool:
    God wants sin? Whew. That pretty much says it all doesn't it johnp? No Mr Ben but it a place to bow the knee that's for sure.

    johnp.
     
    #32 johnp., Feb 24, 2005
  13. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    Well johnp, I am still waiting for your explanation as to how OT people were born again into the Kingdom of God centuries before John the Baptist announced the arrival of the Kingdom of God which Jesus also said people had been entering since John began preaching.
     
    #33 Ben Elohim, Feb 25, 2005
  14. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Ben.

    You can stop waiting it was by grace.
    JOB 19:25 I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. 26 And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God;
    They are the words of a born again believer. Job was redeemed the same as the rest of the Children of God.
    He did not redeem those He did not chose.

    johnp.
     
    #34 johnp., Feb 25, 2005
  15. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    So you do NOT agree with Jesus that people had been entering the Kingdom since the preaching of John who announced the arrival of the Kingdom, but that people had been entering the Kingdom long long before John ever lived. Is that correct johnp?
     
    #35 Ben Elohim, Feb 25, 2005
  16. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Why do you think John is referred to in this way Ben if you don't mind me asking?

    johnp.
     
    #36 johnp., Feb 25, 2005
  17. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    In what way johnp?

    I do not understand why you would disagree with Jesus like this.
     
    #37 Ben Elohim, Feb 25, 2005
  18. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    In what way johnp?

    As the least Ben. :cool:

    johnp.
     
    #38 johnp., Feb 25, 2005
  19. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim New Member

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    Oh, I already told you why Jesus said this but it didn't fit Calvinism so you could not allow yourself to accept it.

    Jesus said that the least in the Kingdom of God is greater than the greatest born of a woman (John B) because the least born again into the Kingdom of God is greater than the greatest unregenerate man born of a woman. John was not born again. Nobody was born again before Jesus rose from the dead my friend.

    Now please explain why you feel you can insist that OT peoples were entering the Kingdom of God long before Jesus said people started entering the Kingdom of God?
     
    #39 Ben Elohim, Feb 25, 2005
  20. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    ...long before Jesus said people started entering the Kingdom of God?

    And the scripture for this is what? Why no verse?

    johnp.
     
    #40 johnp., Feb 25, 2005
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