Leaving the SBC

[Salty]

Yes, I do pastor a SBC chruch - have been SBC for several years.

This church has decided to leave the SBC
IF YOU WISH TO COMMENT - PLEASE INDICATE WHAT BRAND OF BAPTIST YOU ARE
Until I have permission of the pastor, I will not identify his church. (thus some deletions

So - what are your thoughts:

However; since 2015, we have noticed evidence of concerns with agencies funded by the Cooperative Program, or related to the SBC.

• There has been a growing lack of accountability within the restructuring of LifeWay Christian Resources (of which we have not trusted since approximately 2010).
• The Ethics and Religious Liberties Commission under the recent and current leadership.
• The public push back against abolishing abortion and unwillingness to call upon the nation for equal protection for pre-born children in the nation.
• The North American Mission Board under current leadership. NAMB is at best compromised by the growing trend of partnerships with churches that have women pastors and the recent HeGetsUs.com campaign.
• The Executive Committee of the SBC hiring of GuidePost to investigate and counsel on how to handle sex abuse cases.
• Not to mention the problematic relationships with drifting views of woke ideologies and Critical Theory (Critical Race Theory) in some seminaries, as evidenced in recent SBC presidents since 2018 (such as the new www.theunifyproject.org). We have experienced an unwillingness to address the growing practice of churches in the SBC with women in pastoral roles and churches with staff members in unrepented LGBTQ+ lifestyles (even if only a few) being seated as messengers at Southern Baptist Convention meetings.

We are told these things are not happening. You were told these things are not happening at the recent UISBC annual meeting. Where there is room for disagreement amongst Baptists, these issues are related to areas of risky practices and sinfulness within the scope of partnerships. This local church (name was deleted) is responsible and accountable to the Lord Jesus the Christ first and last. I am profoundly convinced that the North American Mission Board and the Ethics and Religious Liberties Commission are compromised with overwhelming pragmatism and have forgotten their duties to serve the local church, the bride of Christ.

We have attempted to gain as much understanding as possible at every level from our beloved kinsmen in the faith. Inquiries have been welcomed by some, yet met with resistance, nuanced explanations, and at times complete denial that these matters even exist. We have attempted in-person, face-to-face conversations with as many as possible. Where some have been willing – most have refused, declined, or not even responded. Some conversations have been helpful and received with respect. Others have been rude and even urging that (Church deleted) would be happiest the sooner we leave.

We have communicated directly with UISBC staff and officers (primarily with staff) through these past several years. In the 21 years of pastoring ( Church, name deleted) I have only missed four annual meetings due to unavoidable circumstances. This last one was because we could not be seated as messengers because (church name deleted) has not given to the Cooperative Program since August of 2020 for the above-mentioned reasons. I take no issue with this reason. I actually respect our partnership and agree with our governing documents that don’t allow for churches that don’t give to the Cooperative Program to be seated. That decision was received with respect and full understanding even though the UISBC has not practiced this in past convention meetings. It is true, we have not given to the Cooperative Program since August of 2020, on purpose, while hoping to get clarification on the above concerns this local church had and still has with the SBC (primarily the agencies, agency presidents, or partners with the SBC as mentioned above). We have left intact our relationship with the (Baptist Association name deleted) so long as they will allow. We have left intact a willingness to cooperate with any church in the SBC and the UISBC. We have even left intact a willingness and a joy to cooperate with any SBC or UISBC agencies, agency presidents, and SBC efforts with an unadulterated or uncompromised relationship with the world.

Having said that: We urge our kinsmen in the faith to investigate these issues personally. Like days past, it is a most desirable conclusion of this church that the SBC will resist the climate of the wicked day. The intention of what we have done is with hope to see repentance of the wayward trajectory of the SBC in this current day while honoring the Creator of heaven and earth.

I wish to give an appeal to any pastor or church who wants to discuss our course of action and give hardy encouragement of the same. It may have happened unintentionally, but we are now in a day where the SBC has become a business enterprise rather than a cooperating clearing house of mission money and missionary sending partnerships of the Lord’s church.

Be encouraged to speak out with boldness, brother pastor. Remember, the SBC does not drive the mission of the church. Your pulpit is what God has ordained to shape the culture. The SBC will be held accountable and even judged for this, but the local church will bear the blame if we do not resist the world. The pulpit and the man in the pulpit must not be told by agencies or agency presidents what they must do or how best to reach the unconverted. We do indeed have a book, brothers, and it is sufficient. What does light have to do with darkness? Light’s relationship to darkness is to expose it because darkness cannot overcome light. Ever. It is a great day to be the church. (end of statement)

 

[JonC]

Good for them. I'm SBC.

 

[Van]

In my early years, until about age 22, I attended an American Baptist Church. In my later years up to the present I am a member of a independent Baptist Church that started out as a Conservative Baptist Church.

I saw three issues that divide:

1. Taking the Biblical position of the right to life of babies, even if too young to be viable outside the womb.
2. Taking the Biblical position that homosexual activity is sinful and therefore inappropriate.
3. Taking the apparent Biblical position that women should not be put in authority over men.

As a conservative, I believe we all should stick as closely as we can to what scripture appears to teach, rather than bow to those seeking to make an accommodation to the flesh. (Romans 13:14)

 

[Salty]

Just heard from the Pastor of Eastside Baptist in Idaho
Pastor Paul Thompson and his blog

 

[Van]

I saw three issues that divide:

1. Taking the Biblical position of the right to life of babies, even if too young to be viable outside the womb.
2. Taking the Biblical position that homosexual activity is sinful and therefore inappropriate.
3. Taking the apparent Biblical position that women should not be put in authority over men.

The question: Should we dis-fellowship with conventions or churches that do not clearly take those positions?
The question was answered yes by the Eastside Baptist Church

Does anyone disagree?

Or do the advocates for ambiguous doctrinal statements win the day?

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Reformed Baptist/Independent Fundamental Baptist

Agree. SBC has gone downhill and taken Russel Moore and Al Mohler with it. Al Mohler hasn't totally sank into the quicksand yet, maybe he can pull himself out, but he's not what he used to be when he attended Ligonier conferences.

 

[canadyjd]

SBC, and this is an example of the beauty of a voluntary cooperation at the local, state, and national level. The local church fellowship makes the decision to fellowship or not.

If you look at the chaos in churches with an authoritative hierarchy, it is much more destructive to general fellowship; who decides which church gets what property and who gets to use the name.

peace to you

 

[Salty]

A couple of notes here
When an individual moves to a new area and wants to attend a SBC church - he needs to investigate those important issues himself.
So lets take the 3 issues in the OP
1. Taking the Biblical position of the right to life of babies, even if too young to be viable outside the womb.
2. Taking the Biblical position that homosexual activity is sinful and therefore inappropriate.
3. Taking the apparent Biblical position that women should not be put in authority over men.

Are they discussed in the Constitution?
You would need to discuss this with the pastor and get definite answers
Ask if the church financially supports a pro-life organization
Check the church website and/or FB and watch any sermons that may be posted.

and likewise - should a church ask new prospective members these questions as well?
(this question -will be part of a new thread)

 

[Jerome]

[I'm Fundamentalist Baptist myself]

Just heard from the Pastor of Eastside Baptist in Idaho
Pastor Paul Thompson and his blog

So the guy in the OP is a politipastor, who just finished yet another unsuccessful campaign for Idaho Legislature.

Salty, I thought you'd get a real kick out of what his church's Constitution (posted on its website) says:

"church may withdraw from affiliation with the Southern Baptist Convention by a vote of two-thirds of the resident membership; provided that, in the event such vote is less than unanimous, the property of the church shall remain vested in the group in the church desiring to retain its affiliation with the Southern Baptist Convention"

 

[Salty]

J-Man - yep very interesting - both with the political and the vesting the building with the SBC group.

As far as the building - I wish we had that back in 1976 - our SBC church split (the interim pastor was BBF). One trustee, went in to redo the rental agreement - and then immediately changed the locks. For a few weeks we were meeting at the Army Chapel. (the Chaplain was SBC) then we finally found a new place to rent. What had happen - (this was in Germany) there was an IFB church - very small that the interim pastor got to know - got them to come and join our church - then the vote to split. - Sad time.
Our church constitution had said that the pastor had to be a grad of a SBC college or seminary. What happen is the the wife of our SBC pastor had cancer - so the pastor redesigned to take his wife back Stateside for treatment. At the time this BBF pastor was in the area - and said he would preach until we obtained a SBC pastor -... well once he was there a bit - he decided to stay......and found a loophole to stay.....

I once had a pastor who stated that you can read a church Constitution and be able to tell what problems that church had in the past. --- I am redoing our church constitution and I think I will put both of those statements in our constitution.

 

[Alan Gross]

As you know, we were organized in 1786*. From the early pioneer days to the present, Bryan Station has sought to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 1:3).

We’re an independent, missionary, Baptist church that practices the two traditional ordinances of the church and holds to the Doctrines of Grace.

*We're "Pre-Lankmark" Landmark, based on "Like Faith and Fellowship" belief in The New Testament.

from: Resetting an Old Landmark

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Eph. 4:5).

"Because of error, laxness, compromise, and liberalism, it has always been the responsibility of Baptists to restate what they have believed through the ages. Baptists must never take it for granted that everyone understands their position on the various doctrines found in Scripture. The day in which we live is no exception.

"In recent years much controversy has arisen over the most fundamental ordinance of the New Testament which is scriptural baptism*. Any student of ecclesiastical history knows that the subject of baptism has always been associated with controversy and heated debate.

"Those whom we would today identify as Baptists have always contended that they alone have the authority to carry out the Great Commission as given by Christ in its fullness and completeness. True Baptists have always rejected the ordinances and ordinations of the Roman Catholic Church and her Protestant daughters. Individuals may preach the Gospel successfully, and teach some truth, but only true Baptist churches have authority from Jesus Christ to baptize."

*See: Valid and Invalid Baptism in Kentucky by Spencer

Alien Baptism in SBC in 1915


...

Buell Kazee did a fair job and even a nice, consistent job, on "church authority"

I just read THE CHURCH AND THE ORDINANCES, Buell Kazee, and agree with H. C. Chiles; "A careful reading and a prayerful consideration of this unique, perceptive, refreshing and provocative interpretation will deepen a Christian's appreciation of and increase his devotion to a New Testament church and her mission.
H. C. Chiles, Pastor, First Baptist Church, Murray, Kentucky, (Former President, KY Baptist Convention)

Worth checking out, even if you don't have faith in "Succession" (which would be foolish, as he and we all say, from the standpoint of documented history.)

We contend churches wind up "Like Faith and Order", because somebody before them had been churched, as in the Command;

Matthew 28:

"19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."


THE CHURCH AND THE ORDINANCES


Title Page

Table of Contents

Author's Preface

Concepts and Uses of the Word "Church"
Chapter 1

The Universal-Invisible Church Theory Examined
Chapter 2

A Church of Positive Identification
Chapter 3

The Origin of the Church
Chapter 4

The Church Developing
Chapter 5

The Church Developing (Continued)
Chapter 6

The Church Maturing
Chapter 7

The Church and its Mission
Chapter 8

"Picture Preaching and Table Talking"
Chapter 9

The Problem of Baptism in History
Chapter 10

The Question Which Divides Us
Chapter 11

The Test of Church Fellowship
Chapter 12

What Others Say



additional links to chapters above, if needed:

The Question Which Divides Us
Chapter 11

The Test of Church Fellowship
By Buell H. Kazee
Chapter 12

...

If you have read this far and want a Spiritual "kick", check this out, starting at:

"We have reason to fear, that there is a very criminal inattention to this important subject amongst professors of Christianity, and even among Protestant Dissenters of our own denomination.

And what is the consequence? great ignorance of the glory and beauty of church-fellowship - great violations of the laws of our sovereign Lord the king in Zion, by which he is dishonoured and affronted in his own peculiar kingdom - the souls of true christians are injured in their best interests -- enquiring persons are offended and prejudiced, when they see professors live unworthy of their Lord and Saviour; and sinners are hardened in their neglect of his great and precious salvation.

"Let us therefore awake from our indolence of temper, and fix our attention on a subject which is so much for our own happiness, as well as for the glory of God."

Read:
THE BEAUTY of SOCIAL RELIGION,
OR, THE NATURE and GLORY of a GOSPEL CHURCH