Left Behind

I know, I bought the kids series for my son. But he isn't really interested in them. The children liked the audio series though. They used to play it on a Christian radio station out here during a time when we were driving from their Christian school back home...a half hour drive.

I haven't seen the second video. Did someone say it was better than the first? The first one seemed to skip so much of the story line, it was a little disappointing to me.

In Christ,
Laurenda

 

duplicate post...how did that happen?

[ April 19, 2003, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: Wisdom Seeker ]

 

That would be me WS!

I had seen the first video when it first came out. When the second video came out, I rented both the first and second since my husband had seen neither.

We both agreed the second video far outdid the first.


Sue

 

Am I seeing things, or are the same folks who are bashing "Veggietales" also praising "Left Behind"??

 

I read the first 8 books in the series. Then I re-examined my belief in "pre-trib" and concluded it wasn't biblical. After that I couldn't stomach reading the remaining installments. However, I can't dispute the financial success of the series.

 

The fact that the Bible doesn't teach it. (Nor did anyone teach it until the 1800s, for that matter.)

 

I wouldn't call it unbiblical, but by no means biblically conclusive. It is certainly in the realm of interpretation. I lump it into the Arminian/Calvinist category. Scriptural room for both, but subscribing to one may interfere with belief in the other.

 

Could we be caught up to meet Jesus coming "in the clouds" on his way down to set his feet on the earth?

"The Son of man coming in the clouds...
with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together his elect"
(Matthew 24:30-31).

"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord...
with the trump of God...
shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord"
(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

Do the scriptures teach two different comings "in the clouds,"
and two different "last" trumps (1 Corinthians 15:52),
and two different raptures of the church?

Because 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 shows Jesus "coming," but doesn't show him landing on the earth, does this require that it be referring to a part-way coming of Jesus whereby he comes down only as far as the clouds and then returns to heaven? Isn't it true that Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 19 don't show Jesus landing on the earth either? Do some then believe that Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 19 are also not the 2nd coming?

Does 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 show Jesus returning to heaven? Doesn't Acts 1:11 say Jesus will "come" just as he left? Will he come only as far as the clouds and then return to heaven again, even thought he didn't leave only as far as the clouds and then return to earth again? Just as he went from the Mount of Olives to the clouds and "into heaven" (Acts 1:11), couldn't he come from heaven to the clouds to the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4)? Does the Bible teach a 3rd coming of Jesus?

Could all of us Christians who will be in the tribulation (Revelation 6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4) still not be appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9) because during the tribulation nobody in heaven says God's wrath "is come" until near the end of the tribulation, after the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15, 18), in the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 15:1; Revelation 16), and none of the 7 vials are poured out on those of us who have obtained salvation? I believe we are even blessed at the 6th vial (Revelation 16:15), that we might endure to the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12), which is the day I believe Jesus will come back (Revelation 19).

I think it's important to make this distinction because many people -- including many Christians -- are going to be blaming God for everything bad that happens to them in the tribulation; they're going to be saying that God is the one causing all of their suffering, when in reality it will be Satan, evil men, and natural disasters that are causing it.

Satan is going to try to use the suffering of the tribulation to turn people -- even us Christians -- away from God, to get us to believe that God is really a cruel and unjust tyrant who only wants mankind to suffer and be tortured, while Satan is the one trying to help us. We need to be able to say, no, this suffering is not from God, but from evil and natural sources, just as we Christians have always had to suffer in wars, famines, plagues, persecutions, and natural disasters throughout history, from the beginning of the church down until this day.

In the pre-trib view, will we Christians who will be in the tribulation (Revelation 6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4) all be appointed to wrath? Aren't being appointed to wrath and obtaining salvation mutually exclusive? "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Note that we Christians who will be in the tribulation have washed our "robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14) and have "the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12) and are "in the Lord" (Revelation 14:13), so we must be in his body (Ephesians 4:4-5), and we must have the Spirit, for "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Romans 8:9).

Do you get the phrase "left behind" from: "So shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Matthew 24:39-40)?

If so, note that there Jesus is referring to the same "coming of the Son of man" as when he says "immediately after the tribulation of those days... they shall see the Son of man coming" (Matthew 24:29-30). Jesus isn't teaching a 3rd coming. Note that he is speaking to the same believers, the same "ye," in Matthew 24:15 that he is speaking to in Matthew 24:42.

In the pre-trib view, how will "one taken, one left" be a secret pre-trib rapture and not an event at the revelation of Jesus, when "even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed... Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Luke 17:30, 36)?

I believe that the ones "taken" at the 2nd coming are unbelievers who are killed, just as Noah's flood "took" evil men away (Matthew 24:39-40), and that the carcasses of the ones "taken" are eaten by eagles and other birds (Luke 17:36-37, Job 39:30, Matthew 24:28, Revelation 19:21).

I believe the ones "left" at the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:40, Zechariah 14:16) will be survivors of the heathen nations that came against Jerusalem, who will be forced to worship Jesus in the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-18), and whom we will rule "with a rod of iron" during that time (Revelation 2:26-29, 5:9-10, 20:4). They will be the ones who will populate the millennium.

The ones "gathered together" at Jesus' 2nd coming are his elect (2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31). So I believe Christians won't be the ones "taken" or the ones "left," but the ones "gathered together."

Does it show anyone repenting during the tribulation? Doesn't it say that the unbelievers "repented not" (Revelation 9:20-21, 16:9-11), and that at some point in the tribulation "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)? Is it possible all the Christians we see in the tribulation (Revelation 6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4) are us, saved before the tribulation began? Does Jesus promise us a rapture before the tribulation?

Could giving unbelievers the idea of a 2nd chance be dangerous? After hearing the ideas of a pre-trib rapture and a 2nd chance, could unbelievers get complacent and say "Oh, when I see a pre-trib rapture happen then I'll repent and believe; I've got a 2nd chance, right?"

Should we instead warn them? "The Bible doesn't promise that there will be a rapture before the tribulation. And in the great tribulation God is going to send a strong delusion (2 Thessalonians 2:11) on all those who rejected the gospel. Today is the day of salvation. You may not get another chance to believe."

http://geocities.com/postrib