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left church
- Thread starter craig
- Start date
Matthew 16:24
New Member
Craig,
I know where you are coming from, I was in a similar situation with my old church. I would definetly recommend talking with the pastor before leaving the church and see how he reacts when you question his motives. If he has a very good reason for doing what he did then forgive the man and move on. If his reaction is shady I would leave that church unless other members feel the same way you do and you can petition to have him step down as pastor.
As for not calling your wife in a difficult time. How big is the church? He may have forgot or thought that you did not want to be bothered. Find out his reasons. My family took time off church once and the members and pastor called way too much. It was like okay one call was nice but please do not keep calling every other day and just show on my door step without calling first. Some people like myself like privacy during troubled times. Also, he may have prayed like crazy for your problem.
I wish you all the best because finding a good Bible teaching church can get very frustrating.
I know where you are coming from, I was in a similar situation with my old church. I would definetly recommend talking with the pastor before leaving the church and see how he reacts when you question his motives. If he has a very good reason for doing what he did then forgive the man and move on. If his reaction is shady I would leave that church unless other members feel the same way you do and you can petition to have him step down as pastor.
As for not calling your wife in a difficult time. How big is the church? He may have forgot or thought that you did not want to be bothered. Find out his reasons. My family took time off church once and the members and pastor called way too much. It was like okay one call was nice but please do not keep calling every other day and just show on my door step without calling first. Some people like myself like privacy during troubled times. Also, he may have prayed like crazy for your problem.
I wish you all the best because finding a good Bible teaching church can get very frustrating.
joshknighton
New Member
You must remember that he is a man. God doesn't need us, but choses to use us. You can't let your mind focus on the man, rather the God at work inside him.
I know it's hard to forget things like that, but you can't let a slip in the flesh hinder your worship, or those you God wants you to worship with.
I know it's hard to forget things like that, but you can't let a slip in the flesh hinder your worship, or those you God wants you to worship with.
I quit pastoring because of the many cry babies in the pews who would complain about how the pastor didn’t visit them as often as the pastor did when the church was 25 and it came to be 220. I would get up at 5:00 AM each morning and study. At least once a week I would take an entire day and visit people. I led two discipleship Bible studies each week and preached at least three times during the week. I found that so many people were lazy and wanted the pastor to make the church grow. I finally told the last church I was at that they would have to start doing some of the work. They refused to get me a secretary while the offering and attendance more than doubled.
What I found out was that there are so many cry babies that want the pastor to come join their misery and hold their hand. They are babies when they ought to be teachers. I visited over 200 people each year and knocked on doors each week. I was busy. But I have never had time for those who want to complain and sit idly by while the world is going to hell. If people wanted to complain I would ask them if they would like to go visiting with me. The look on their faces told me what they wanted. They didn't want to work. They just wanted to complain. Complainers are abundant. The workers are few while the harvest is plentiful.
Now I am back as a general contractor and my paycheck has more than doubled and I live in a nice area and the home is mine. Each week I meet with those who want to grow and learn. There are no complainers and church politicians--just people that want to grow.
Now, as a general contractor I have more time for my family and can enjoy more of the things money will buy. Since I quit pastoring I have bought a home and new pickup. Before that I owned a car that had over 200,000 miles on it and it was always broken down.
So Craig. I ask, "How many are living for Jesus Christ because of your life?" My advice is grow up and quit expecting the pastor to do the work of ministry for you. Start leading people to Christ and disciple them yourself. Suppose what the pastor did was totally wrong. Maybe he needs some encouragement. The problem is not so much what the pastor did but your unwillingness to forgive. Jesus picked grain on the Sabbath too. Rather than judging him why don't you forgive 70 times 7.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
Craig, your story is changing:
Top of page one:
1) Are you sure that you, personally, did not get offended instead of being offended as a member?
2) Did the Pastor have a fill-in or did he just leave an empty pulpit?
3) Was his absence approved by anyone?
4) Why isn't his church taking care of him so he doesn't need to earn outside money?
Sometimes if we go to church and do not "get our cup filled", maybe we have our cup upside down...
Blessings,
§ue
Top of page one:
Top of page two:
Some questions to ponder...
1) Are you sure that you, personally, did not get offended instead of being offended as a member?
2) Did the Pastor have a fill-in or did he just leave an empty pulpit?
3) Was his absence approved by anyone?
4) Why isn't his church taking care of him so he doesn't need to earn outside money?
Sometimes if we go to church and do not "get our cup filled", maybe we have our cup upside down...
Blessings,
§ue
This is one of the application mistakes of this passage.
You can't forgive someone who doesn't ask for it. Further, if you go back a few verses in the same chapter, Craig did what was required: He felt someone trespassed against him, and went to that person, who--from the accounting here--refused to hear him.
Seems to me the question is: Was the pastor right in not preaching the word 2 Sundays in a row?
According to Matthew 18, Craig should take someone with him and approach the pastor again.
I would suggest, Craig, that if you haven't already done so, approach the deacons with this. If they're satisfied with the events, then it's only you with the problem.
I don't know that I'd leave the church over this, but you have to determine what scripture says on this subject, and then follow where God is guiding you.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
gb93433 said:
Picking grain to eat is one thing. Not attending service because there's big bucks in fireworks is a different story!
Sounds a little different when you change it that way, doesn't it?
Diane
YOU complain very often about the church members you had before you left the ministry but don't want the church members to complain when the preacher takes off and sells fireworks on Sunday!
THIS quote speaks VOLUMES. I don't even need to add anything here!
The problem is not so much what the CHURCH MEMBERS did but your unwillingness to forgive. Jesus picked grain on the Sabbath too. Rather than judging him why don't you forgive 70 times 7.
Picking grain to eat is one thing. Not attending service because there's big bucks in fireworks is a different story!
Sounds a little different when you change it that way, doesn't it?
Diane
Now, as a general contractor I have more time for my family and can enjoy more of the things money will buy. Since I quit pastoring I have bought a home and new pickup. Before that I owned a car that had over 200,000 miles on it and it was always broken down.
They refused to get me a secretary while the offering and attendance more than doubled
It sounds like the best thing you could do for the church was get out so you can get back to your worldly things.I bet your church is alot happier since you left.
Did you ever think that maybe you could be wrong instead of everyone else.
They refused to get me a secretary while the offering and attendance more than doubled
It sounds like the best thing you could do for the church was get out so you can get back to your worldly things.I bet your church is alot happier since you left.
Did you ever think that maybe you could be wrong instead of everyone else.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
Don: I have to respectfully disagree with you here. You do not have to wait for someone to ask for forgiveness before you forgive them.
I have people who have committed an offense against me and I started forgiving them immediately until full forgiveness came in my heart. I also started praying for them.
Forgiving someone, whether they ask for it or not, will free our Spirit and make sure we have a right relationship with God.
GB: If you are happier now, with temporal things, than you were as a pastor...maybe you misread your 'call' to preach in the first place. I have heard it said that if you could be happy doing anything besides preaching, you were not cut out to preach...
Seems like some are condemning this Pastor after hearing only one side of the story. Does this seem right to you?
USN2Pulpit
New Member
Everyone...I think gb gave his story in that manner for emphasis. Don't rain all over him for it. As a pastor myself, although admittedly new at it, I am beginning to understand some of the pressures these men face. It is already difficult enough for God's man.
Do you realize that I spend time grieving over my inadequacies, hoping that somehow God will use even me, to lead the people at my church? The pressure is enormous, but the rewards have been great. I so much want to do the right things, but I also am afraid within myself of doing the wrong things. I don't know how to explain it to you from the pastor's perspective.
And when the church doesn't support their pastor (which is not my case) or even when one individual goes "head-hunting" for their pastor, or when people whine and complain and won't work, not realizing the work, the prayers, and even the tears that their pastor is putting in...that's when things like gb told us about can happen.
So I say this:
gb: God bless you and build you up and restore you to your calling - in His time, you will heal and go on with your commission.
craig: God bless you and give you wisdom, knowledge, and vision - so that you will be able to worship and contribute to the vision of the church where God wants you.
Do you realize that I spend time grieving over my inadequacies, hoping that somehow God will use even me, to lead the people at my church? The pressure is enormous, but the rewards have been great. I so much want to do the right things, but I also am afraid within myself of doing the wrong things. I don't know how to explain it to you from the pastor's perspective.
And when the church doesn't support their pastor (which is not my case) or even when one individual goes "head-hunting" for their pastor, or when people whine and complain and won't work, not realizing the work, the prayers, and even the tears that their pastor is putting in...that's when things like gb told us about can happen.
So I say this:
gb: God bless you and build you up and restore you to your calling - in His time, you will heal and go on with your commission.
craig: God bless you and give you wisdom, knowledge, and vision - so that you will be able to worship and contribute to the vision of the church where God wants you.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
I agree. I am not a pastor, but my son is so I think I have some idea of the pressures.
That is why I don't think we should be judging this pastor (who is also God's man) that Craig is talking about when he is not here to defend himself.
No one knows his heart and there is ALWAYS two sides to every story...
USN2pulpit,I know what your saying,even though I know there are people that feel the same way I do I don't want the church to lose the pastor because it's to hard to replace a good one.
But I've prayed about it and I feel God is telling me to find another church.Maybe someday I'll be back there again,I never what to say never,but for now it's time to move on.
I never intended to start in a heated debate about this I just felt like I wanted to see what other people thought.I would never take anyones advice on what to do from people on the internet that's what prayers are for.
I'm almost 57 years old so I can make up my own mind with prayer,but it's been interesting hearing the thoughts of most of the post here.
Craig
But I've prayed about it and I feel God is telling me to find another church.Maybe someday I'll be back there again,I never what to say never,but for now it's time to move on.
I never intended to start in a heated debate about this I just felt like I wanted to see what other people thought.I would never take anyones advice on what to do from people on the internet that's what prayers are for.
I'm almost 57 years old so I can make up my own mind with prayer,but it's been interesting hearing the thoughts of most of the post here.
Craig
Here's an article found in Leadership Journal called, The Power of Staying Put
Disillusionment with one's church is not a reason to leave but a reason to stay and see what God will create in one's life and in the local church. What I perceive to be my needs—"I need a church with a more biblical preacher who uses specific examples from real life"—may not correspond to my true spiritual needs. Often I am not attuned to my true spiritual needs. Thinking that I know my true needs is arrogant and narcissistic. Staying put as a life practice allows God's grace to work on the unsanded surfaces of my inner life. Seventeenth-century French Catholic mystic Francois Fenelon wrote, "Slowly you will learn that all the troubles in your life—your job, your health, your inward failings—are really cures to the poison of your old nature."
The biggest problem in any church I attend is myself—and my love of self and my penchant to roam when I sense my needs aren't being met.
Staying put and immersing oneself in the life of a gathered community forces one into eventual conflict with other church members, with church leadership, or with both. Frustration and conflict are the raw materials of spiritual development. All the popular reasons given for shopping for another church are actually spiritual reasons for staying put. They are a means of grace, preventing talk of spirituality from becoming sentimental or philosophical. Biblical spirituality is earthy, face-to-face, and often messy.
At its best, the local church functions as an arena in which conflict and hurts among participants who choose to stay can open up possibilities for spiritual progress.
By Dave Goetz,
Leadership Weekly
See full article at: http://www.christianitytoday.com/leaders/newsletter/2003/cln31028.html
Where I attend church we have had a great change in the membership over the past 3 years after a change in leadership; the numbers are about the same but the members are different. I’ve been there since I was married (more than 23 years) and am one of the “older” members. Some people have moved away, others have become passed on, but some have moved on to churches where things seem better. I interviewed one church shifter that left and began attending a large “non-denominational” where the attendance ranged in the thousands each Sunday. He said he went there because, “I just wanted to get lost [in the crowd]”. I was an excuse that underwhelmed me, he just didn’t want to be held accountable as he would be in a smaller congregational setting.
There are some good reasons to leave a church, just make sure all other posible choices are exausted. You may learn a lot more by staying.
Rob
Disillusionment with one's church is not a reason to leave but a reason to stay and see what God will create in one's life and in the local church. What I perceive to be my needs—"I need a church with a more biblical preacher who uses specific examples from real life"—may not correspond to my true spiritual needs. Often I am not attuned to my true spiritual needs. Thinking that I know my true needs is arrogant and narcissistic. Staying put as a life practice allows God's grace to work on the unsanded surfaces of my inner life. Seventeenth-century French Catholic mystic Francois Fenelon wrote, "Slowly you will learn that all the troubles in your life—your job, your health, your inward failings—are really cures to the poison of your old nature."
The biggest problem in any church I attend is myself—and my love of self and my penchant to roam when I sense my needs aren't being met.
Staying put and immersing oneself in the life of a gathered community forces one into eventual conflict with other church members, with church leadership, or with both. Frustration and conflict are the raw materials of spiritual development. All the popular reasons given for shopping for another church are actually spiritual reasons for staying put. They are a means of grace, preventing talk of spirituality from becoming sentimental or philosophical. Biblical spirituality is earthy, face-to-face, and often messy.
At its best, the local church functions as an arena in which conflict and hurts among participants who choose to stay can open up possibilities for spiritual progress.
By Dave Goetz,
Leadership Weekly
See full article at: http://www.christianitytoday.com/leaders/newsletter/2003/cln31028.html
Where I attend church we have had a great change in the membership over the past 3 years after a change in leadership; the numbers are about the same but the members are different. I’ve been there since I was married (more than 23 years) and am one of the “older” members. Some people have moved away, others have become passed on, but some have moved on to churches where things seem better. I interviewed one church shifter that left and began attending a large “non-denominational” where the attendance ranged in the thousands each Sunday. He said he went there because, “I just wanted to get lost [in the crowd]”. I was an excuse that underwhelmed me, he just didn’t want to be held accountable as he would be in a smaller congregational setting.
There are some good reasons to leave a church, just make sure all other posible choices are exausted. You may learn a lot more by staying.
Rob