"Left vs Right" - Politics is a farce.

[Arbo]

Really you shouldn't feed it.

Actually, that was my first impression; but I didn't want to rush a judgement of the OPer.

 

[carpro]

Regarding the OP- The tone of it sure leads one to think that Ceegen was advocating giving up on and withdrawing from politics.



Anyone who is not willing to cast a vote or run for office has little credibility when they complain about the state of the nation they were unwilling to have a voice in.

Makes one wonder why he felt compelled to drop in and share his disdain for all of us and our concern for the direction this country goes, politically?

 

[Don]

I already told you why your inference was wrong: HE DIDN'T SAY WHAT YOU'RE MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT.

Hey, I made a comment about what was posted; YOU chose to respond to my comment and make it a big deal.

And that's still based upon you jumping to a conclusion about something that has not been said.

Again, I pointed out exactly the wording that led the conclusion I made. If you choose to ignore such wording, that's your choice.

I see someone saying what he said and someone else complaining about something he didn't say. But like I said, this seems to be consistent with the way you folks who have been on here for a while tend to operate.

And there you go with your imprecise language again. Why are you inferring that I was "complaining" about what he wrote? I merely offered up a different viewpoint. YOU'RE the one that has identified what I wrote as "seemingly indignant" and "complaining."

It was unrighteous because it wasn't based in truth. It was based in your opinion of what you thought he was saying instead of what he said.

My opinion is based on what he wrote. YOU won't address that he actually wrote certain words; so how does that make your opinion more truthful than mine?

Yes, the group is always right. Give me a break. It's no surprise that sharks travel in packs. Folks on here feed off each other. And those who have been here the longest seem to kinda dictate the direction that the tone of a thread will take.

The analogy that best exemplifies what you just wrote--and I'll be the first to admit that no analogy is perfect--is: 4 people see a car accident. 3 of them say one of the vehicles had a turn signal on. You say neither car had a turn signal on. The other 3 are obviously wrong.

Love is greater than like. I can't get to loving you if I don't like you. That's just like telling Christ I love your Church but I don't like its members.

God hates sin; yet, while we were yet sinners, He loved us so much that He died for us. If we say we have no sin in us, we are liars; yet He loves us anyway. There is a difference between "love" and "like".

You have no basis for saying that I'm off the mark about what you said because I didn't speak to what you said but rather the lack of a basis for you to say it.

He did not say what you said.

Yet, I've repeatedly shown you the basis for what I said, and you won't address that. You just simply keep saying that's not what he said.

And to acknowledge that he is the only one who can do that is to acknowledge that you inferred based upon your own opinions instead of dealing with what he DID say.

Oh, puh-leeze. That's why in my response to you I used the word "inference." The inference is NOT based on my own opinions; it's based on words the individual used, the definitions of those words, and the context of how those words were used together. Get over it.

It's like some of you are just looking for something to come at someone sideways about.

Maybe that's why this section is titled "Christian DEBATE Forums"?....

 

[Mexdeaf]

Good grief Salty, here we are agreeing again. Twice in one day!

There must be something in the Mountain Dew!:laugh:

 

[Salty]

There must be something in the Mountain Dew!:laugh:

There must be !!!

 

[Crabtownboy]

Well I'll hush up my mug ............

My brother Bill runs a still on the hill
Where he turns out a gallon or two
And the buzzards in the sky get so drunk they can not fly
Just from sniffing that good old mountain dew.
Chorus
They call it that good old mountan dew,
And them that refuse it are few.
I'll hush up my mug if you'll fill up my jug
With that good old mountain dew.

My aunt Lucille had an automobile,
It ran on a gallon or two.
It didn't need no gas and it didn't need no oil,
It just ran on that good old mountain dew.

Repeat chorus

My uncle Mort, he is sawed off and short,
He measure 'bout four foot two,
But he thinks he's a giant when you give him a pint
Of that good old mountain dew.

Repeat chorus

Old Auntie June had a brand new perfume,
It had such a wonderful "pew"
But to her surprise, when she had it analyzed,
It was nothing but that good old mountain dew

Repeat chorus

I know a guy named Pete, his hair ain't so neat,
Though he fixes it with syrup and blue,
But it stays right in place when he uses just a trace
Of that good old mountain dew.

Repeat chorus

The preacher-he walked by, with a big tear in his eye
Said that his wife had the flu
And hadn't I ought just to give him a quart
Of that good old mountain dew

Repeat chorus

My uncle Klaus had a real mean old mouse
When they asked how it happened,
He said it was a lappin'
That good old mountain dew

Repeat chorus

There's an old hollow tree, just a little way from me
Where you lay down a dollar or two
If you hush up your mug, then they'll give you a jug
Of that good old mountain dew

Repeat chorus

You take a little trash and you mix it up with ash,
And you throw in the soul of a shoe,
Then you stir it awhile with an old rusty file,
And they call it that good old mountain dew.

Repeat chorus

During the last war, we couldn't get no more,
We didn't have no sugar for the dew
With a few old potaters and a few ripe tomaters,
We turned out some stuff, I'm tellin' you

Repeat chorus

Old Deacon Crane took a trip in the rain,
Said his wife had come down with the flu,
But she'll be all right if you give her a pint
Of that good old mountain dew.

Repeat chorus

Mr. Franklin Roosevelt, he told me how he felt
The day the old dry law went through:
If your likker's too red, it will swell up your head
Better stick to that good old mountain dew.

http://www.scoutsongs.com/lyrics/mountaindew.html

 

[targus]

IMO, it was implied when he said:
To me, that means don't vote if there is only evil to vote for.

Or it could have just meant don't vote for either of the evils ,but to vote and write someone in.:thumbsup:

How is anyone supposed to understand "don't vote" to mean "vote and write in"?

Words have meaning.

You can't claim a different meaning that is the opposite of what the plain reading of the text says.

Or is that how you read Scripture too?

 

[saturneptune]

If we wonder why we have two pathetic candidates running for President, maybe we should look in the mirror as a nation, especially on the Republican side. The cycle repeats every four years, since 1988, and we never learn. The cycle goes like this. A liberal wins the nomination, and everyone gripes about the choices. The Democrat either wins by a good margin or the Republican squeeks through. Then, when the election is over, we forget all about making a difference the next election. Three and a half years later when the primaries start, a bunch of liberal bafoons are running for the nomination. Everyone starts complaining again. After the election, no one does anything. It was repeated in 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008 and now, in 2012. It is too late to do anything about it.

It is a virtual guarantee, regardless who wins, we will sit on our lazy duffs until 2016 is upon us, and viola, another liberal is running.

If one keeps doing the same dumb things, the one gets the same dumb results. If the candidacy of John McCain and Mitt Romney did not wake up anyone, then nothing will.

We created the situation we are in today, We reap what we sow, what goes around comes around.

Votes for Bush, Dole, Bush, McCain, and Romney are all based on the lesser of two evils, and a good excuse to explain how lazy we are.

 

[Don]

If we wonder why we have two pathetic candidates running for President, maybe we should look in the mirror as a nation, especially on the Republican side. The cycle repeats every four years, since 1988, and we never learn. The cycle goes like this. A liberal wins the nomination, and everyone gripes about the choices. The Democrat either wins by a good margin or the Republican squeeks through. Then, when the election is over, we forget all about making a difference the next election. Three and a half years later when the primaries start, a bunch of liberal bafoons are running for the nomination. Everyone starts complaining again. After the election, no one does anything. It was repeated in 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008 and now, in 2012. It is too late to do anything about it.

It is a virtual guarantee, regardless who wins, we will sit on our lazy duffs until 2016 is upon us, and viola, another liberal is running.

If one keeps doing the same dumb things, the one gets the same dumb results. If the candidacy of John McCain and Mitt Romney did not wake up anyone, then nothing will.

We created the situation we are in today, We reap what we sow, what goes around comes around.

Votes for Bush, Dole, Bush, McCain, and Romney are all based on the lesser of two evils, and a good excuse to explain how lazy we are.

I'm still extremely disappointed that the Constitution Party has finally identified a presidential candidate, but no one knows that they did so, or anything about the individual.

So in response to your post: As a generalization, you're absolutely correct. Individually, some folks are trying. We just need to find other, better, more effective ways.

 

[saturneptune]

I'm still extremely disappointed that the Constitution Party has finally identified a presidential candidate, but no one knows that they did so, or anything about the individual.

So in response to your post: As a generalization, you're absolutely correct. Individually, some folks are trying. We just need to find other, better, more effective ways.

I was a delegate to the Constitution Party this year in April at Nashville. The man they nominated was Virgil Goode. He is a former Congressman from VA. He has some good ideas, but his charisma is zero. He is hard to hear, and speaks with his eyes downward, and certainly does not inspire a crowd.

In addition, the rest of the state delegation from Kentucky decided not to show up. It cost several hundred bucks between the convention fees and the hotel. The delegates that did come from other states seemed more interested in chit chat and party time than doing something to make a difference. As I left for home, I was totally disquisted. The next day, I went down to the courthouse and switched back to Republican. That does make me any more fond of Romney, despite the fact he is our only hope of unseating Obama. Not a good situation. The only conclusion I can come to is one can only affect change within the Republican Party as long as it is one of the two major parties. Very depressing really. It kind of reminds me of the conclusions the Preacher reaches in Eccleseastis.

 

[Ceegen]

Makes one wonder why he felt compelled to drop in and share his disdain for all of us and our concern for the direction this country goes, politically?

I could care less about the direction this, or any country, goes in. I am not concerned with politics anymore since becomming aware of certain things, and have focused more on the spiritual aspect of this nation which is seriously ill. If that offends you, so be it.

The bottom line is, you can't legislate morality, and when you try to play the game by "their" rules... Well, the house always wins. It really is that simple. It doesn't matter who you vote for; they worship the beast, and he gives them their power.

Why do you think this nation is slowly slipping towards blatent, in-your-face Communism, no matter who is in office? Is it a coincidence?

I do believe conspiracies exist. I do believe there is a greater movement towards a one-world government. I do believe the United States is a big part of this movement, regardless of how we vote. I also know that it is being orchistrated by dark forces and spiritual wickedness in "high places", because the bible tells us as much.

If there were a Communist revolution here in the United States, would you turn the other cheek, and boldly take up your cross in the name of Jesus? Are you willing to die to be a witness of God to the evil among us? Do you love your enemy so much, that you are willing to let them kill you simply because you believe in God? It will come to this.

I will not spill blood for the sake of a lie, and be found in the judgement of God. I know that these people want a one-world government, are the most deceived of all. Doing violence to them will not sway them, it will only make them more bold in their efforts to stiffle us. I would rather change their minds by forgiving them with my dying breath, in order to have them repent and turn to God, instead of let them die in the lake of fire because of their sin.

But talk is cheap, and I only pray that God will strengthen me when the time comes: The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

 

[Sapper Woody]

I could care less about the direction this, or any country, goes in. I am not concerned with politics anymore since becomming aware of certain things,

I guess this means that Don was right in his inferences.

 

[carpro]

I could care less about the direction this, or any country, goes in. I am not concerned with politics anymore since becomming aware of certain things, and have focused more on the spiritual aspect of this nation which is seriously ill. If that offends you, so be it.

So why are you here? In this, the "politics" forum?

Other than to show us how unChristian we are as compared to you, that is?

and Don't worry about offending me. It's impossible in an internet forum.

But , I'd like to have the truth. It appears you have another agenda. It's also strange that , out of all the posts here, you chose to respond to mine.

Touch a nerve so closely that you make a liar out of yourself by making this post?

 

[mandym]

I could care less about the direction this, or any country, goes in. I am not concerned with politics anymore since becomming aware of certain things, and have focused more on the spiritual aspect of this nation which is seriously ill. If that offends you, so be it.

The bottom line is, you can't legislate morality, and when you try to play the game by "their" rules... Well, the house always wins. It really is that simple. It doesn't matter who you vote for; they worship the beast, and he gives them their power.

Why do you think this nation is slowly slipping towards blatent, in-your-face Communism, no matter who is in office? Is it a coincidence?

I do believe conspiracies exist. I do believe there is a greater movement towards a one-world government. I do believe the United States is a big part of this movement, regardless of how we vote. I also know that it is being orchistrated by dark forces and spiritual wickedness in "high places", because the bible tells us as much.

If there were a Communist revolution here in the United States, would you turn the other cheek, and boldly take up your cross in the name of Jesus? Are you willing to die to be a witness of God to the evil among us? Do you love your enemy so much, that you are willing to let them kill you simply because you believe in God? It will come to this.

I will not spill blood for the sake of a lie, and be found in the judgement of God. I know that these people want a one-world government, are the most deceived of all. Doing violence to them will not sway them, it will only make them more bold in their efforts to stiffle us. I would rather change their minds by forgiving them with my dying breath, in order to have them repent and turn to God, instead of let them die in the lake of fire because of their sin.

But talk is cheap, and I only pray that God will strengthen me when the time comes: The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Man, I have never seen such a post full of bumper sticker slogans.

 

[Ceegen]

So why are you here? In this, the "politics" forum?

Other than to show us how unChristian we are as compared to you, that is?

and Don't worry about offending me. It's impossible in an internet forum.

But , I'd like to have the truth. It appears you have another agenda. It's also strange that , out of all the posts here, you chose to respond to mine.

Touch a nerve so closely that you make a liar out of yourself by making this post?

No. This post was made in an attempt to lead-in to something more. In all actuality, I chose to respond to your post, because it was the best response. The reply, is for the entire audience, seeing as how this is a forum.

It delves into conspiracy theories and such, and in my reply that you quoted, I hinted as much. I would like to show everyone that is willing, a bit of what really goes on behind the scenes... But if no one is interested, then I would be wasting my time. (Things like, the New World Order, Illuminati, the Georgia Guidestones, UN Agenda 21, etc...).

Our government, is not to be trusted. No government should. Because what is government, really? An idea which takes form in the people who run it. And so if the people who run the government are corrupt and evil, then our government is corrupt and evil. This is why I say that electing the lesser of two evils, is still evil.

But it was set up like that. The powers that be would like nothing more than to burn the Constitution of the United States in a bonfire, along with the bible. And they will one day do this very thing. The same laws of men which justify the use of force in one instance, will justify it in another.

These people that are so eager to replace our freedoms with chains, will use the US Constitution to do it!

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." - Preamble of the US Constition; The Declaration.

They'll blame capitalism, and the free markets, and rich republicans, and everything that they're already doing... Until enough people believe it, so they can change things to their way of doing it. It will be bloody, and it will be swift.

Just like Israel of ancient times, the United States has grown strong because we obeyed God. But we've grown far from that, and just like the Israel of ancient times, we will be punished for going astray. I say to you, dear friends in Christ, that our punishment is just because it comes from God.

 

[saturneptune]

No. This post was made in an attempt to lead-in to something more. In all actuality, I chose to respond to your post, because it was the best response. The reply, is for the entire audience, seeing as how this is a forum.

It delves into conspiracy theories and such, and in my reply that you quoted, I hinted as much. I would like to show everyone that is willing, a bit of what really goes on behind the scenes... But if no one is interested, then I would be wasting my time. (Things like, the New World Order, Illuminati, the Georgia Guidestones, UN Agenda 21, etc...).

Our government, is not to be trusted. No government should. Because what is government, really? An idea which takes form in the people who run it. And so if the people who run the government are corrupt and evil, then our government is corrupt and evil. This is why I say that electing the lesser of two evils, is still evil.

But it was set up like that. The powers that be would like nothing more than to burn the Constitution of the United States in a bonfire, along with the bible. And they will one day do this very thing. The same laws of men which justify the use of force in one instance, will justify it in another.

These people that are so eager to replace our freedoms with chains, will use the US Constitution to do it!

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." - Preamble of the US Constition; The Declaration.

They'll blame capitalism, and the free markets, and rich republicans, and everything that they're already doing... Until enough people believe it, so they can change things to their way of doing it. It will be bloody, and it will be swift.

Just like Israel of ancient times, the United States has grown strong because we obeyed God. But we've grown far from that, and just like the Israel of ancient times, we will be punished for going astray. I say to you, dear friends in Christ, that our punishment is just because it comes from God.

Yes, voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil. Just a question, what have you done in the last four years to make a change? You can post all of the lofty ideals you wish, but we do not live in Disneyland, and all Americans do not act like the Waltons. We have to deal with the situation we are in, granted it for the most part of our own making. God's judgement is more often than not letting the consequences of our actions be the penalty.

You are right about one thing. America has been more blessed and has sinned a lot more than the OT nations and at times Israel that God judged. That is one thing that is hard to imagine, why this has gone on so long. Things like same sex relationships and abortion have been going on a long time, and are bad enough in themselves. However, when America makes it the law of the land, it is like rubbing God's nose in sin. Abortion is already the law of the land, and slowly but surely, the states are allowing same sex marriage, and will not stop until it reaches fifty.

I think most here are open to discussing conspiracy theories involving the federal government. The fact that gives me the greatest reason to doubt them, is that most of conspiracies would take a great amount of intelligence. That is hard to imagine since departments like the Postal Service and the VA cannot do their everyday function in an efficient manner.

 

[Ceegen]

Yes, voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil. Just a question, what have you done in the last four years to make a change?

Been tryin' like all heck to turn people back to God. I've been spit in the face merely for mentioning the name Jesus in public. I often ask people when things like this happen, "If the bible is just a book of fairy tales, then why such blind hatred for Jesus?"

You can post all of the lofty ideals you wish, but we do not live in Disneyland, and all Americans do not act like the Waltons. We have to deal with the situation we are in, granted it for the most part of our own making. God's judgement is more often than not letting the consequences of our actions be the penalty.

Yep!

You are right about one thing. America has been more blessed and has sinned a lot more than the OT nations and at times Israel that God judged. That is one thing that is hard to imagine, why this has gone on so long. Things like same sex relationships and abortion have been going on a long time, and are bad enough in themselves. However, when America makes it the law of the land, it is like rubbing God's nose in sin. Abortion is already the law of the land, and slowly but surely, the states are allowing same sex marriage, and will not stop until it reaches fifty.

Did you know that there are churches and pastors who support same-sex marriage? Sounds like babel and apostasy to me. We're on the wide road that leads to destruction.

It isn't just the absense of God that is doing this, but the twisting of the bible to suit the needs of those who think they are doing good. Wicked lifestyles are being promoted, and people are quoting the bible and arguing semantics, when the bible is clear on these immoral behaviors. It's sick, but the worst part is, we let it happen because no one is there when it happens to refute the lies. We aren't being bold like the early church was in stamping out the evil with the good news of savlation in Jesus.

I mean, when was the last time anyone ever tried reaching out to these people with love and compassion, rather than telling them they will go to hell for their actions? Yes, tell them they are sinners, rebuke the evil, but don't tell them they're going to go to hell for it. We don't know that for sure, only God does, and we aren't helping God by judging our fellow human by doing so.

I think most here are open to discussing conspiracy theories involving the federal government.

Wonderful!

The fact that gives me the greatest reason to doubt them, is that most of conspiracies would take a great amount of intelligence.

It's not as complicated as it seems. It only seems complicated because the lies are many, but there is only one truth.

The vast majority of people at the lower levels of government don't know what is really going on. They're just collecting a paycheck. that doesn't make them good or bad, and yet, because they allow it to happen they are a part of the problem.

Most Americans would rather not believe the conspiracy theories, even if true, for the simple fact that "If it doesn't change the price of beer or cigarettes, I don't care!" - And yes, I've actually heard that before too. We become complacent with the evil among us, simply so we are not bothered by the implications of it.

That is hard to imagine since departments like the Postal Service and the VA cannot do their everyday function in an efficient manner.

Your first "homework assignment" for this class will be to watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6ayb02bwp0
(Runtime is 2h 26m - Yeah it's long, but well worth it. Pay attention!)
"America - Freedom to Fascism" by Aaron Russo.

Is the income tax illegal? Are we supposed to pay taxes on our wages and labor? Nope! But the government, through enforcement and under the threat of violence, collects this illegal tax. Why? Watch the movie and find out. It's very well documented, and easily verifiable.

Even includes interviews with former IRS agents who resigned over the truth they found while working at the agency, who now work against the IRS and this illegal tax scheme. It isn't just some far-out conspiracy, but something to get you started.

Like I said, I was in the US Army for 7 years. I got out in 2010 and stayed out for a reason. A friend of mine at my last unit told me to watch a movie, much like I am asking you to do now, and it opened a whole "Pandora's Box" full of questions for me. I've spent close to 6 years now researching this stuff, reading very dry history books and checking the citations at the bottom of the pages, just to see if it was true. It is, but don't take my word for it. Prove me wrong!

 

[Don]

I guess Zaac left us for the weekend....

 

[carpro]

No. This post was made in an attempt to lead-in to something more. In all actuality, I chose to respond to your post, because it was the best response. The reply, is for the entire audience, seeing as how this is a forum.

It delves into conspiracy theories and such, and in my reply that you quoted, I hinted as much. I would like to show everyone that is willing, a bit of what really goes on behind the scenes... But if no one is interested, then I would be wasting my time. (Things like, the New World Order, Illuminati, the Georgia Guidestones, UN Agenda 21, etc...).

So, in spite of what you say, you are very much interested in politics.

As to the New World Order... that's just a name, but I think we are all aware of the strong push by internationalists like Obama and the Clintons to weaken our constitution in favor of the opinion of the rest of the world. In fact, they seem to want to subjugate us to the whims of the international community. They are trying to destroy the concept of American exceptionalism once and for all.

UN Agenda 21 is not news to me. It's in writing. Anyone that wants to see what the goal of the international community concerning America and it's freedoms is, has but to read it.

Tales of the illuminati have been around for a long time. There's nothing new here. But I confess, I've never heard of the Georgia Guidestones. I'll have to research them.

I think , on the whole, you will find most of the regulars here better informed than you think, but we are definitely hard to lead down the primrose path of a lot of wild conspiracy theories.

But if you'd like serious debate, you'd best get off your high horse and stopping acting like you are some sort of super Christian and the rest of us are just gnats buzzing around your head. And if you are truly not concerned about the direction we are headed politically, then perhaps you should just try another forum.

 

[saturneptune]

Conspiracy theories are an interesting topic, but so is the existence of UFOs. The fact is that most government entities cannot perform their daily function with any efficiency, so to take that mindset to a level of being able to deceive the entire American citizenry is a giant leap.