Legalism causes division

[evangelist6589]

I think I just got dumped or pushed aside by a potential girl/friend because I am of the Way of the Master mindset. This woman is a Fundamentalist, and practices the doctrine of SEPARATION to the core. Way of the Master is a Conservative evangelical para church ministry.

I am a confrontational evangelist and I think she has a problem with Ray Comfort's lack of Biblical separation. She also has a problem with me wanting to speak with false teachers to try and persuade them of their errors. In her mind one cannot speak with false teachers, but must condemn them. I am all for doing this, but perhaps many people in these cults and false movements have been DECEIVED and why I seek to evangelize to them.

Its really sad as I cant seem to find a girl that matches me perfectly. I either find ones where I am far more conservative, or I find ones where I am not conservative enough. I need to find a woman that has one foot in conservative evangelicalism, and another in fundamentalism. Perhaps the church I am attending has that balance as they do not seem to be as dogmatic about Fundamentalism and rigid about tradition and Bible translation, and dress attire as some other IFB churches are in my area. No doubt legalism does divide. And while she does not refuse to speak with me, she is not pursuing me or seeking me out like she was before. Perhaps I have read into our chats, but I know she felt a little discouraged because I am not as much to the right as her. People like this do nothing but paint themselves in a corner. Its only Jack Hyles, Paul Chappell and the more extreme of Fundamentalist that win their approval.


John

 

[HAMel]

Extreme Legalism or, for that matter, extreme Fundamentalism, takes so much away. We have enough burdens to carry now without adding more on top.

I've spent many years in churches where as a believer and member I just wasn't doing enough; wasn't on my knees enough; wasn't in church enough; wasn't visiting enough; wasn't friendly enough; wasn't tough enough; wasn't humble enough; wasn't tithing enough; wasn't.., wasn't.., wasn't. I just wasn't good enough to be a Christian in how they applied the Word of God.

After 30 years I finally broke away from this extremism and you know what, I'm just as happy as I can be in the Lord. You have to correctly divide the Word of Truth and if you can't specifically, just let the Lord do it. We are to be happy in the Lord, trusting in Him, following Him..., and nowhere are we instructed to burden ourselves down with man made legalism. The Lord will not put a burden on us that He won't give us the strength to deal with.

Ever try to "push" a string in a straight line? You can't. You can pull it but can't push it. I think our Lord wants to "lead/pull" us through this world rather than "push" us through.

Your girl friend dumps you. Probably a blessing as you'll perhaps never be good enough to meet her expectations.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Its really sad as I cant seem to find a girl that matches me perfectly. I either find ones where I am far more conservative, or I find ones where I am not conservative enough. I need to find a woman that has one foot in conservative evangelicalism, and another in fundamentalism.

Ah .... so you are looking for a schizophrenic. :laugh:

Seriously. You aren't going to find a perfect match because people aren't perfect. You will find a suitable match. That's what God said that He would provide for Adam - "a help (literally 'succor' - relief) that was 'meet' (suitable)".

 

[abcgrad94]

I have yet to see a legalistic fundamentalist who has true joy and true love for others. It's all about rules and living up to man-made expectations. It's about negative preaching about what is always wrong with everybody else, never your own personal sin.

I'm still independent Baptist, but have found that GARBC (General Association of Regular Baptist Churches) is a closer fit for me than IFB. We have several single gals in my church but not many young men. You might try looking for a gal in a GARBC church.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I married later on in life. Concentrate on being the man of God He wants you to be and then trust Him to bring the right someone into your life. Trust me, i know that is hard, but God is at work making you ready for the wife who completes you. He is also at work in the woman's life.

 

[RevGKG]

I married later on in life. Concentrate on being the man of God He wants you to be and then trust Him to bring the right someone into your life. Trust me, i know that is hard, but God is at work making you ready for the wife who completes you. He is also at work in the woman's life.

Good advice! :thumbs:

 

[glfredrick]

I'm not liberal in any sense of the word, but I also cannot see how legalism, whether of the IFB/GARB sort or of the "confrontational evangelism" sort are biblical, save for a lack of "big picture" understanding of Scripture.

When I examine the life of Jesus carefully, I find that He exclusively was a man WITH and FOR the people, not a legalist who took everyone to task for their failures, or even for their lack of understanding or faith. He wept over the city of Jerusalem -- which was THE holy city of God that contained THE temple and THE priests of God! He healed the "unclean" who no "priest of God" would (or could!) touch. He called "sinners" to be his innermost circle of disciples, men (and women!, though they were not leaders) including the most vile of citizens in the Roman Empire -- tax collectors. He talked to, ate with, and generally hung around with the people that the Temple would not even recognize because they were low-class "sinners" and often "unclean." They were the people who had to clean the toilets, process the animals, remove the garbage, prepare the food, etc., etc., etc., of the "clean ones," so that the clean people would not have to sully themselves and become like the vile sinners that lived below them.

It is this fundamental misunderstanding of Jesus that drives legalism and motive-driven evangelism. We have, in a sense, re-instituted the exact same Pharisaical religious game in the name of "holiness" (that does not even accurately understand what it means to be holy in a biblical sense) that Jesus spoke most firmly against while He walked the earth.

A whole new class of ruling priests that dare not "sully their hands" with "unclean things" or "unclean people" exists, and with a purported task of converting those unclean ones to Christ, but they are going about that task in all the wrong ways!

Where is the love? Where is the mercy of God extended to "the least of these..." even if they are unclean or un-holy as we approach them the first time (they surely are if they are lost without Christ!). Where is God's grace? And more, where is God's POWER to change lives that model the life of Christ, who was not an evil taskmaster, but a loving Savior who came (yes, in strength) to lead lost sheep back to Himself.

I am definitely not advocating a pure social gospel here! Heaven forbid! We went down those roads in the early 1900s and that flawed theological perspective caused the birth of the fundamentalist movement that today has become a mirror image of the Temple in Jerusalem, with its many laws and requirements that none could possibly fulfill. I am advocating a biblically-driven gospel of hope for the sinners of the world, with whom we MUST engage, love, befriend, serve, and evangelize with God's grace. In this, we truly become "set apart for God's use" as we dedicate every ounce of our life to serving our Lord and King rather than TELLING others just how far off the mark they are compared to us.

 

[HAMel]

glfredrick, well said. Amen!

 

[J.D.]

I think I just got dumped or pushed aside by a potential girl/friend because I am of the Way of the Master mindset. This woman is a Fundamentalist, and practices the doctrine of SEPARATION to the core. Way of the Master is a Conservative evangelical para church ministry.

I am a confrontational evangelist and I think she has a problem with Ray Comfort's lack of Biblical separation. She also has a problem with me wanting to speak with false teachers to try and persuade them of their errors. In her mind one cannot speak with false teachers, but must condemn them. I am all for doing this, but perhaps many people in these cults and false movements have been DECEIVED and why I seek to evangelize to them.

Its really sad as I cant seem to find a girl that matches me perfectly. I either find ones where I am far more conservative, or I find ones where I am not conservative enough. I need to find a woman that has one foot in conservative evangelicalism, and another in fundamentalism. Perhaps the church I am attending has that balance as they do not seem to be as dogmatic about Fundamentalism and rigid about tradition and Bible translation, and dress attire as some other IFB churches are in my area. No doubt legalism does divide. And while she does not refuse to speak with me, she is not pursuing me or seeking me out like she was before. Perhaps I have read into our chats, but I know she felt a little discouraged because I am not as much to the right as her. People like this do nothing but paint themselves in a corner. Its only Jack Hyles, Paul Chappell and the more extreme of Fundamentalist that win their approval.


John

She dumped you? You should dump HER. The last thing you need in your ministry is a potential hyper-critical wife that will tear down what you're trying to build. Tom gave some good advice. Wait for a suitable mate - an encourager, a helper in the Kingdom of God.

In the mean time, try to encourage her to break away from that cult she's in. If she does that, she could eventually become the right one for you, but be careful.

 

[evangelist6589]

I have yet to see a legalistic fundamentalist who has true joy and true love for others. It's all about rules and living up to man-made expectations. It's about negative preaching about what is always wrong with everybody else, never your own personal sin.

I'm still independent Baptist, but have found that GARBC (General Association of Regular Baptist Churches) is a closer fit for me than IFB. We have several single gals in my church but not many young men. You might try looking for a gal in a GARBC church.

Are there any in Greenville, SC?

 

[evangelist6589]

She dumped you? You should dump HER. The last thing you need in your ministry is a potential hyper-critical wife that will tear down what you're trying to build. Tom gave some good advice. Wait for a suitable mate - an encourager, a helper in the Kingdom of God.

In the mean time, try to encourage her to break away from that cult she's in. If she does that, she could eventually become the right one for you, but be careful.

Good advice. She may deny that she's a legalist and in a cult. So I need to penetrate those walls.

 

[evangelist6589]

I'm not liberal in any sense of the word, but I also cannot see how legalism, whether of the IFB/GARB sort or of the "confrontational evangelism" sort are biblical, save for a lack of "big picture" understanding of Scripture.

When I examine the life of Jesus carefully, I find that He exclusively was a man WITH and FOR the people, not a legalist who took everyone to task for their failures, or even for their lack of understanding or faith. He wept over the city of Jerusalem -- which was THE holy city of God that contained THE temple and THE priests of God! He healed the "unclean" who no "priest of God" would (or could!) touch. He called "sinners" to be his innermost circle of disciples, men (and women!, though they were not leaders) including the most vile of citizens in the Roman Empire -- tax collectors. He talked to, ate with, and generally hung around with the people that the Temple would not even recognize because they were low-class "sinners" and often "unclean." They were the people who had to clean the toilets, process the animals, remove the garbage, prepare the food, etc., etc., etc., of the "clean ones," so that the clean people would not have to sully themselves and become like the vile sinners that lived below them.

It is this fundamental misunderstanding of Jesus that drives legalism and motive-driven evangelism. We have, in a sense, re-instituted the exact same Pharisaical religious game in the name of "holiness" (that does not even accurately understand what it means to be holy in a biblical sense) that Jesus spoke most firmly against while He walked the earth.

A whole new class of ruling priests that dare not "sully their hands" with "unclean things" or "unclean people" exists, and with a purported task of converting those unclean ones to Christ, but they are going about that task in all the wrong ways!

Where is the love? Where is the mercy of God extended to "the least of these..." even if they are unclean or un-holy as we approach them the first time (they surely are if they are lost without Christ!). Where is God's grace? And more, where is God's POWER to change lives that model the life of Christ, who was not an evil taskmaster, but a loving Savior who came (yes, in strength) to lead lost sheep back to Himself.

I am definitely not advocating a pure social gospel here! Heaven forbid! We went down those roads in the early 1900s and that flawed theological perspective caused the birth of the fundamentalist movement that today has become a mirror image of the Temple in Jerusalem, with its many laws and requirements that none could possibly fulfill. I am advocating a biblically-driven gospel of hope for the sinners of the world, with whom we MUST engage, love, befriend, serve, and evangelize with God's grace. In this, we truly become "set apart for God's use" as we dedicate every ounce of our life to serving our Lord and King rather than TELLING others just how far off the mark they are compared to us.

Pastor John MacArthur in his book The Jesus You Cant Ignore says this about the Fundamentalist movement. They are indeed close to the religion of the scribes and Pharisees. But John never says that IFB are preaching another gospel.

 

[evangelist6589]

I married later on in life. Concentrate on being the man of God He wants you to be and then trust Him to bring the right someone into your life. Trust me, i know that is hard, but God is at work making you ready for the wife who completes you. He is also at work in the woman's life.

I am indeed. But at the same time I also cant stay tucked into my house. My churches has a singles ministry and if the Lord uses that to bring a mate I do not know, but I will remain faithful to the ministry. I will remain faithful to the ministry I have been called too, which is street evangelism.

I attended a singles dance at a SBC earlier this year, and have separated myself from it, because of all the music, and the environment they created. People would be out kissing, and kissing, and kissing. The environment was so much like the world, with the exception of no alcohol. I stayed obedient to God and He will bless me because of it.

Because I fell into sin with a woman there (did not have sex but came close) I have my punishment of seeing her in my head far too often in my thoughts.

 

[freeatlast]

I think I just got dumped or pushed aside by a potential girl/friend because I am of the Way of the Master mindset. This woman is a Fundamentalist, and practices the doctrine of SEPARATION to the core. Way of the Master is a Conservative evangelical para church ministry.

I am a confrontational evangelist and I think she has a problem with Ray Comfort's lack of Biblical separation. She also has a problem with me wanting to speak with false teachers to try and persuade them of their errors. In her mind one cannot speak with false teachers, but must condemn them. I am all for doing this, but perhaps many people in these cults and false movements have been DECEIVED and why I seek to evangelize to them.

Its really sad as I cant seem to find a girl that matches me perfectly. I either find ones where I am far more conservative, or I find ones where I am not conservative enough. I need to find a woman that has one foot in conservative evangelicalism, and another in fundamentalism. Perhaps the church I am attending has that balance as they do not seem to be as dogmatic about Fundamentalism and rigid about tradition and Bible translation, and dress attire as some other IFB churches are in my area. No doubt legalism does divide. And while she does not refuse to speak with me, she is not pursuing me or seeking me out like she was before. Perhaps I have read into our chats, but I know she felt a little discouraged because I am not as much to the right as her. People like this do nothing but paint themselves in a corner. Its only Jack Hyles, Paul Chappell and the more extreme of Fundamentalist that win their approval.


John

So what exactly are you asking? One thing I did notice is that she is not pursuing you as the woman should not be doing the pursuing. So that is good. She will make a fine wife for someone who seeks a woman of virtue.

 

[J.D.]

I am indeed. But at the same time I also cant stay tucked into my house. My churches has a singles ministry and if the Lord uses that to bring a mate I do not know, but I will remain faithful to the ministry. I will remain faithful to the ministry I have been called too, which is street evangelism.

I attended a singles dance at a SBC earlier this year, and have separated myself from it, because of all the music, and the environment they created. People would be out kissing, and kissing, and kissing. The environment was so much like the world, with the exception of no alcohol. I stayed obedient to God and He will bless me because of it.

Because I fell into sin with a woman there (did not have sex but came close) I have my punishment of seeing her in my head far too often in my thoughts.

I can see street evangelism going on in the Bible, but where is "singles ministry" in the Bible? One is a righteous work, the other is a hinderence to it.

 

[J.D.]

So what exactly are you asking? One thing I did notice is that she is not pursuing you as the woman should not be doing the pursuing. So that is good. She will make a fine wife for someone who seeks a woman of virtue.

The inability to speak to people of other opinions is not a virtue.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I am indeed. But at the same time I also cant stay tucked into my house. My churches has a singles ministry and if the Lord uses that to bring a mate I do not know, but I will remain faithful to the ministry. I will remain faithful to the ministry I have been called too, which is street evangelism.

I attended a singles dance at a SBC earlier this year, and have separated myself from it, because of all the music, and the environment they created. People would be out kissing, and kissing, and kissing. The environment was so much like the world, with the exception of no alcohol. I stayed obedient to God and He will bless me because of it.

Because I fell into sin with a woman there (did not have sex but came close) I have my punishment of seeing her in my head far too often in my thoughts.

I don't think you ought to stay tucked into your house. I am just saying that you may be pressing too hard to find a mate. Let God bring her to you as you serve Him.

Has your way been working for you?

 

[freeatlast]

The inability to speak to people of other opinions is not a virtue.

Your only hearing from one side.

 

[J.D.]

Your only hearing from one side.

That is true; however what he said about her sounds just like some people I know. And that's exactly the way they are - they think that if you talk to a Methodist too long you'll become one. The only acceptable conversation for these people always begins with "If you were to die tonight", and ends with, "Now say this prayer to be saved". Anything else leads to evil. Now I realize that doesn't describe most fundamentalists, but it's a fair description of the type of Hyles-Gray-Chappell fundamentalist the OP complains about.

 

[Scarlett O.]

So what exactly are you asking? One thing I did notice is that she is not pursuing you as the woman should not be doing the pursuing. So that is good. She will make a fine wife for someone who seeks a woman of virtue.

Hey, Bro. Freeatlast -

Haven't you heard the old adage that "a man will chase a woman until SHE catches him"? There's some truth in that brother. :laugh:

Oh .... and go re-read the book of Ruth. She proposed, you know. :thumbs: