Legalism

[Tim]

Originally posted by PASTOR MHG:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Tim:
Trying to follow the OT law today is yet another form of legalism. That schoolmaster became obsolete once Christ came to provide true righteousness (Gal. 3).

I certainly hope the schoolmaster has not become obsolete...my 4 year old and 2 year old are not yet born again. What a tragedy if the Law is not available to teach them their need for the wonderful grace found in the person of Christ. What a tragedy that we have come to a place in the church that all we need is the Love and Liberty of Christ...We have forgoten about that eye-opening reality that each one of us must face as we behold ourselves next to that awesome and humbling picture that is CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS...the Law of God.

Max </font>[/QUOTE]Max,

We have never been under the OT Law. Surely it is illustrative of what God expects, but it has been superceded by the law of Christ. And that is far more effective at conincing us of sin than the OT Law could ever be.

I rejoice that the old schoolmaster is obsolete!

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by Tim:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PASTOR MHG:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Tim:
Trying to follow the OT law today is yet another form of legalism. That schoolmaster became obsolete once Christ came to provide true righteousness (Gal. 3).

I certainly hope the schoolmaster has not become obsolete...my 4 year old and 2 year old are not yet born again. What a tragedy if the Law is not available to teach them their need for the wonderful grace found in the person of Christ. What a tragedy that we have come to a place in the church that all we need is the Love and Liberty of Christ...We have forgoten about that eye-opening reality that each one of us must face as we behold ourselves next to that awesome and humbling picture that is CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS...the Law of God.

Max </font>[/QUOTE]Max,

We have never been under the OT Law. Surely it is illustrative of what God expects, but it has been superceded by the law of Christ. And that is far more effective at conincing us of sin than the OT Law could ever be.

I rejoice that the old schoolmaster is obsolete! </font>[/QUOTE]But Tim, Paul was writing to a New Testament church, though there were Jews in it. Yes, once a person is saved, he is not under the law. But before a person is saved, he is not under the law of Christ. He will be judged by the law written in his own conscience.

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another" (Rom. 2:14-15).

 

[Tim]

J of J,

Paul was tracing the history of God's use of the OT Law in Gal. God used it until Christ came as a schoolmaster (note the use of past tense in the passage).

As far as Rom. 2 is concerned--yes, God's expectations are to some degree upon the conscience of all men. But gentiles have never been a party to the Old Mosaic covenant. We have always been "without the law" i.e. outside the OT Law.
Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

 

[PASTOR MHG]

Originally posted by Tim:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PASTOR MHG:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Tim:
Trying to follow the OT law today is yet another form of legalism. That schoolmaster became obsolete once Christ came to provide true righteousness (Gal. 3).

I certainly hope the schoolmaster has not become obsolete...my 4 year old and 2 year old are not yet born again. What a tragedy if the Law is not available to teach them their need for the wonderful grace found in the person of Christ. What a tragedy that we have come to a place in the church that all we need is the Love and Liberty of Christ...We have forgoten about that eye-opening reality that each one of us must face as we behold ourselves next to that awesome and humbling picture that is CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS...the Law of God.

Max </font>[/QUOTE]Max,

We have never been under the OT Law. Surely it is illustrative of what God expects, but it has been superceded by the law of Christ. And that is far more effective at conincing us of sin than the OT Law could ever be.

I rejoice that the old schoolmaster is obsolete! </font>[/QUOTE]Friend,

We no nothing of the Law of Christ (Gal. 6) until the Law of God revives sin in us (Rom. 7). The old schoolmaster is only obsolete to a person who has graduated into the Law of Christ (new birth). However, if as you say, the old schoolmaster is obsolete, then I as a preacher am wasting my time. If sin cannot be revived in a man, he will never know of his need to have it nailed to the cross. What man needs is a good look at himself through the spectacles of God's Law. A realization of how far short he falls(Rom. 3).

Max

 

[Tim]

Max,

Are you saying one cannot be saved unless he was a party to the Old Covenant? Surely not. As a gentile, the Holy Spirit convinced me of the sin of pride to bring me to salvation--something that the OT Law doesn't cover, yet God laid it on my conscience as a damning sin. We as gentiles do not need to be brought under the Old Mosaic Law to come to Christ. It was the method God used for the Jews until the Messiah came, but He has more powerful and wide-ranging means today.

 

[Sword Of The Spirit]

Hi everyone,

Great discussion! I see a lot of excellent points raised here about legalism. Sometimes Biblical Christians have to walk a fine line, as not everyone defines legalism the same way. For instance, I have been accused of being a legalist do to the following positions I hold to: A. Women are not called to pastorship B. Not compromising doctrines that I sincerely hold as Biblically based and passionate about. C. Believing that the Bible is infallible. D. Refusing to accept other religions as pathways to God. etc. I am sure there is a few more, but those have earned me the title, legalist. lol

However, to me legalism is not when a view is supportedly undoubtedly by scripture. (Legalism can however, occur with a spurious interpretation.) To adhere to what the Bible specifically teaches is not to be a legalistic, therefore I do not think it is legalistic if a Pastor should show scripture as to why a woman can't be a pastor and as a rule of their church, because of what the Bible says, they uphold it. I feel what makes a church legalistic is when a Pastor starts trying to rule everyone in every aspect of their life in ways that are not supported at all in the Bible, or he basis it on a spurious interpretation. It's easy to start to notice these churches as the members start suffocating and the joy of God is being robbed of them. What was once Joy, has now turned to worry, and nervousness about upsetting a Pastor. The focus then falls upon the Church rules, and tip toeing around every rule the Pastor writes up, rather than straight up at Christ.

Anyhow, that's my take on the issue.

 

[John of Japan]

Good take, Sword of the Spirit.