Let’s take a closer look at the importance of forgiveness

[evangelist-7]

I know that many "Christians" do NOT take the following passage seriously,
but it’s okay … I’m used to it.

"But IF we (Christians) walk in the light as He is in the light,
we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses(*) us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse(*) us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
(1 John 1:7-10)
(*) the Greek tense means “keeps on cleansing (purifying)”

John is telling Christians what is required for God to ...
“forgive us our sins” and “cleanse (purify) us from all unrighteousness”.

“Whoever has been born of God does not sin(*), for His seed remains in him;
and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” (1 John 3:9)
(*) this means in the Greek “continue to sin without repenting, continually live in sin”.

Now, let’s look at what Jesus Himself said about forgiveness …

“Forgive, and you will be forgiven.” (Luke 6:37)

“… if you have anything against anyone, forgive him,
that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.
But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
(Mark 11:25-26, Matthew 6:14-15)
… and a really long version may be found in Matthew 18:21-35.

If you do not forgive everyone (IMO, before you die), Father God will not forgive your sins.

Qvestion: Will Father God accept you into heaven, if He has not forgiven your sins?
.

 

[Yeshua1]

I know that many "Christians" do NOT take the following passage seriously,
but it’s okay … I’m used to it.

"But IF we (Christians) walk in the light as He is in the light,
we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses(*) us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse(*) us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
(1 John 1:7-10)
(*) the Greek tense means “keeps on cleansing (purifying)”

John is telling Christians what is required for God to ...
“forgive us our sins” and “cleanse (purify) us from all unrighteousness”.

“Whoever has been born of God does not sin(*), for His seed remains in him;
and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” (1 John 3:9)
(*) this means in the Greek “continue to sin without repenting, continually live in sin”.

Now, let’s look at what Jesus Himself said about forgiveness …

“Forgive, and you will be forgiven.” (Luke 6:37)

“… if you have anything against anyone, forgive him,
that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.
But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
(Mark 11:25-26, Matthew 6:14-15)
… and a really long version may be found in Matthew 18:21-35.

If you do not forgive everyone (IMO, before you die), Father God will not forgive your sins.

Qvestion: Will Father God accept you into heaven, if He has not forgiven your sins?
.

You are calling God a liar, for by raising Jesus from the Gravem he said that he accepted His death as payment in FULL for all our sins!

 

[BobRyan]

hence the importance in Matt 18 of Christ's teaching on "forgiveness" revoked.

"I forgave you ALL that debt" - Matt 18

"So shall my Father do to each one of YOU IF you do not forgive ...". Matt 18.

instructive.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[OldRegular]

I know that many "Christians" do NOT take the following passage seriously,
but it’s okay … I’m used to it.

"But IF we (Christians) walk in the light as He is in the light,
we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses(*) us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse(*) us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
(1 John 1:7-10)
(*) the Greek tense means “keeps on cleansing (purifying)”

John is telling Christians what is required for God to ...
“forgive us our sins” and “cleanse (purify) us from all unrighteousness”.

“Whoever has been born of God does not sin(*), for His seed remains in him;
and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” (1 John 3:9)
(*) this means in the Greek “continue to sin without repenting, continually live in sin”.

Now, let’s look at what Jesus Himself said about forgiveness …

“Forgive, and you will be forgiven.” (Luke 6:37)

“… if you have anything against anyone, forgive him,
that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.
But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
(Mark 11:25-26, Matthew 6:14-15)
… and a really long version may be found in Matthew 18:21-35.

If you do not forgive everyone (IMO, before you die), Father God will not forgive your sins.

Qvestion: Will Father God accept you into heaven, if He has not forgiven your sins?
.

Read the following and then you decide, but decide correctly!

Hebrews 9:11-14
11. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[evangelist-7]

Hebrews 9:11-14
11. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle,
not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place,
having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Sure, I've always said ... we were given EVERYTHING when we became born-again!

And, I've always said ... we have the free will to reject it all (like maybe we prefer to sin!).

Dozens of verses (are supposed to) teach us that we are to be participants in our salvation process.

As I've always said ... God did NOT create any robots ... He gave us free will for a purpose!

Bottom Line: The LORD desires to share heaven with humans who choose to be obedient to Him!
And that is why He gave His Spirit (the Helper) to some humans ... so these could be!
.

 

[OldRegular]

Sure, I've always said ... we were given EVERYTHING when we became born-again!

And, I've always said ... we have the free will to reject it all (like maybe we prefer to sin!).

Dozens of verses (are supposed to) teach us that we are to be participants in our salvation process.

As I've always said ... God did NOT create any robots ... He gave us free will for a purpose!

Bottom Line: The LORD desires to share heaven with humans who choose to be obedient to Him!
And that is why He gave His Spirit (the Helper) to some humans ... so these could be!
.

Eternal Redemption means Eternal Redemption, period!

 

[Winman]

Sure, I've always said ... we were given EVERYTHING when we became born-again!

And, I've always said ... we have the free will to reject it all (like maybe we prefer to sin!).

Dozens of verses (are supposed to) teach us that we are to be participants in our salvation process.

As I've always said ... God did NOT create any robots ... He gave us free will for a purpose!

Bottom Line: The LORD desires to share heaven with humans who choose to be obedient to Him!
And that is why He gave His Spirit (the Helper) to some humans ... so these could be!
.

What makes you think Christians here do not forgive others? I would bet that everyone here at BB is just as forgiving as you, many may be far more forgiving than you. I know for a fact that most here at BB are far more respectful of others than you are, you are a big smart aleck, that is easy for anyone to see.

What makes you think you have it made?

 

[steaver]

“Whoever has been born of God does not sin(*), for His seed remains in him;
and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” (1 John 3:9)
(*) this means in the Greek “continue to sin without repenting, continually live in sin”.

.

And right there is your OSAS! Praise Jesus!

He CANNOT (Impossible) continue in sin. Gotta love this truth in Christ. What an assurance of salvation IN HIM, not in Me. Praise Him!

Why? Because...

1Th5:24 - ....the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Heb12:2 - "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;


Thank you for posting this scripture! :thumbsup:

 

[Amy.G]

And, I've always said ... we have the free will to reject it all (like maybe we prefer to sin!).

Once your sins have been forgiven, the debt is ZERO!!! There is no debt to be paid! The debt is GONE! There is no more sacrifice for sin available. IT IS FINISHED!

 

[Amy.G]

The LORD desires to share heaven with humans who choose to be obedient to Him!

Then you'd better get busy being obedient buddy! You do not love the brethren, which is a command!

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

 

[steaver]

Then you'd better get busy being obedient buddy! You do not love the brethren, which is a command!

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

I believe in his own mind he constructs a "loop hole" for that command Amy. He doesn't consider most of us saved (brethren) . However, God covered all these deviations from His commandments when the Pharisees asked "just who is my neighbor?" And when Jesus told them to even love their enemies they were appalled. Yet E7 is blinded to his own daily sins here on the BB. Habitual sin even, which he believes sends a Christian to hell. He can't see himself in the doctrine he holds.

 

[BobRyan]

Certainly forgiveness is not "optional" for the saint. There is no such thing as an unforgiven saint.

Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

[FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'
34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]

 

[steaver]

Certainly forgiveness is not "optional" for the saint. There is no such thing as an unforgiven saint.

Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

[FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]

I'm curious Bob, do you have a written guideline of sorts, or list of scriptural explanations of just how one goes about exercising forgiveness and how one can be sure they have actually forgave the person and are not just giving lip service? Other words, how do you judge yourself and how are you certain God has approved of your forgiveness?

There are dozens of examples of wrongdoings which we need to forgive daily. I would imagine one could spend hours upon hours concentrating on this each day, especially you since you believe if there is any thing you might have missed or any thing you might have not properly forgave, even though you may think you have, you would go to hell. That alone should cause you much anguish each day.

I have a brother who was removed from a position in his church. He felt it was unjust and he was bitter about it, even left the church. That was 15 years ago and to this day he says he forgives them, BUT "I don't have to sit down and eat dinner with them" he says. Is this forgiveness? Is there any kind of test that we can be sure we have forgiven correctly and will not face hell after all our works of love for Christ sake? Remember, just one little misstep and it's hell bound according to your doctrine. Maybe you have the answer for this uncertainty, I hope so, unless you live your life for Christ not knowing if you will be saved until your final death from this earth.

 

[evangelist-7]

E7 is blinded to his own daily sins here on the BB.
Habitual sin even, which he believes sends a Christian to hell.
He can't see himself in the doctrine he holds.

Roberto, when are you going have had enough of these people?
I can't figure out if they're ignorant, stupid, stubborn, or just simply deceived.

How many times now have I copied & pasted the answer to our occasional sins?
And why do I even bother? ... because of the red.

"But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
(1 John 1:7-10)

 

[steaver]

Roberto, when are you going have had enough of these people?
I can't figure out if they're ignorant, stupid, stubborn, or just simply deceived.

How many times now have I copied & pasted the answer to our occasional sins?
And why do I even bother? ... because of the red.

"But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
(1 John 1:7-10)

I have yet to see you confess your sins you have committed here on the BB, or repent of them. So isn't that blindness to your own rhetoric?

 

[OldRegular]

Roberto, when are you going have had enough of these people?
I can't figure out if they're ignorant, stupid, stubborn, or just simply deceived.

How many times now have I copied & pasted the answer to our occasional sins?
And why do I even bother? ... because of the red.

That is a pathetic remark!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Then you'd better get busy being obedient buddy! You do not love the brethren, which is a command!

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Amen sister:thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Certainly forgiveness is not "optional" for the saint. There is no such thing as an unforgiven saint.

Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

[FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]

I'm curious Bob, do you have a written guideline of sorts, or list of scriptural explanations of just how one goes about exercising forgiveness and how one can be sure they have actually forgave the person and are not just giving lip service? Other words, how do you judge yourself .

Every time some Bible text comes up that you want to sidestep you ask for someone else to tell you what it means - so you can then divert the point to find fault with their statements as if the Bible text was not your issue.

Why keeping trying that game out?? Has it ever worked on me??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Certainly forgiveness is not "optional" for the saint. There is no such thing as an unforgiven saint.

Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

[FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]

This is a parable. Parables don't teach new doctrine (i.e. forgiveness revoked); they illustrate the doctrine already being taught--the importance of forgiveness. The beginning of the section Peter asks: "Lord how often shall I forgive my brother? seven times?" You have started with a false premise and have come to a false conclusion.

Every time some Bible text comes up that you want to sidestep you ask for someone else to tell you what it means - so you can then divert the point to find fault with their statements as if the Bible text was not your issue.

Why keeping trying that game out?? Has it ever worked on me??

in Christ,

Bob

No. You are the prime example of one who likes to play dodge ball or dodge scripture. Here a personal question is asked of you and you want to dodge it too.

Here is another based more on Scripture and repentance.
If your sins must be forgiven before you go to heaven, suppose you had done some wrong, (i.e. told a lie without confessing it), and suddenly died of a heart attack without notice, without a chance to repent of that sin. Would you go to heaven?

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

[FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]

This is a parable. Parables don't teach new doctrine (i.e. forgiveness revoked);

It is not "new". Ezek 18 teaches it. Christ was applying known scripture.

Thus you cannot use that excuse to simply avoid the teaching of Christ when it does not please man-made-traditions.

In fact in vs 35 Christ makes the much-dreaded application of the parable that OSAS does not survive.

in Christ,

Bob