Let the best theology win

[Luke2427]

There has been tension between General Baptists and Particular Baptists since the 1630's.

There have been times when the General Baptist Arminianism was dominate.

There have also been times when the Particular Baptist Calvinism was dominate.

Southern Baptists have historically been open to both views. But there is a concerted effort to purge the denomination of Calvinism today. One church I know of which is in the process of looking for a pastor received from the state headquarters literature to guide them in their selection of a pastor which included the booklet "The Trouble with Tulip."

That's not neutrality.

Why not stop trying to LEGISLATE away either side and let whichever side is best at preaching its ideals win?

The General Baptist Arminianism that has dominated Southern Baptists since the early part of the last century is giving way to the Particular Baptist Calvinism once again.

But rather than letting the theology which resides with the best missionaries and soul winners and church builders take over due to their work- so many Arminian Baptists are using crooked means to smother the return of Calvinism to its dominant position in Southern Baptist life.

There was a time when the Particular Baptists so outnumbered the General Baptists in this nation that Particular Baptists became known simply as Regular Baptists.

Then General Baptist theology made a come back under the influence of Finney and camp meetings.

Why not let the best Kingdom builders win?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

So, you see it as a contest that somebody wins and loses? I don't.

 

[Luke2427]

So, you see it as a contest that somebody wins and loses? I don't.

Well aren't you special!

Do not pull your shoulder out of joint patting yourself on the back about how enlightened and spiritual you are.

I did not say the word "contest".

But ideals do compete for dominance. We pray the Christian Gospel will defeat the ideals of atheism, etc...

So we launch ideas into the market place of ideals and pray for reasonable people to judge our ideals most reasonable.

Pray tell... How could you POSSIBLY have a problem with that??

Do you not debate? Do you not present your ideas on soteriology?

Do you not hope that as ideals compete for the captivation of the minds of your children as they grow up that your Christian ideals WIN??

Do you not try to teach them your soteriology?

Frankly, I find your post to be petty and semantically nit-picking.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Well aren't you special!

Do not pull your shoulder out of joint patting yourself on the back about how enlightened and spiritual you are.


Where did you get that from? Oh, I forgot that someone doesn't have to actually say something for you to get obnoxious.

I did not say the word "contest".

But ideals do compete for dominance. We pray the Christian Gospel will defeat the ideals of atheism, etc...

So we launch ideas and pray for reasonable people to judge our ideals most reasonable.

Pray tell... How could you POSSIBLY have a problem with that??

Do you not debate? Do you not present your ideas on soteriology?

Do you not hope that as ideals compete for the captivation of the minds of your children as they grow up that your Christian ideals WIN??

Do you not try to teach them your soteriology?

Frankly, I find your post to be petty and semantically nit-picking.

See above, first reply in color.

Frankly, I find your attempt to divide Arminians and Calvinists into winners and losers as pathetic and immature.

 

[Luke2427]

See above, first reply in color.

Frankly, I find your attempt to divide Arminians and Calvinists into winners and losers as pathetic and immature.

It is less than intelligent to act as though ideas do not compete for dominance.

It is frankly, silly.

And you lack the honesty in debate to address what I actually SAY.

I did not say, for instance, that we should divide Arminians and Calvinists into winners and losers.

I said let the best THEOLOGY win.

You TOTALLY ignore the core of the op and focus on some tiny orbital issue.

This is not the way thoughtful adults debate, Thomas.

This is the way a child behaves.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Nobody wins by imiplying (de facto calling) another a "jackass"

The best theology HAS won already and God is glorified. This seems a thread with no value already. But I will leave it open to let salvos fly and nothing be accomplished.

 

[Luke2427]

Nobody wins by imiplying (de facto calling) another a "jackass"

The best theology HAS won already and God is glorified. This seems a thread with no value already. But I will leave it open to let salvos fly and nothing be accomplished.

Just for the record, since the way thomas formed that post it might be confusing: it was not me who called anyone a jackass. That was Thomas.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

But there is a concerted effort to purge the denomination of Calvinism today.

Yes, however...there is equally a concerted effort to purge it of Arminianism as well. Founders anyone?? That is probably unfortunate on both counts. Truth be told, I would consider the move to purge Calvinism as a reactionary one.

One church I know of which is in the process of looking for a pastor received from the state headquarters literature to guide them in their selection of a pastor which included the booklet "The Trouble with Tulip."

That's not neutrality.

No, it isn't. If it came from the SBC HQ that is inappropriate and perhaps you should say something. Just make sure that it wasn't from a State Convention which may have a different set of rules.

Why not stop trying to LEGISLATE away either side and let whichever side is best at preaching its ideals win?

Given the leeway within the BFM to be either Arminianistic or Calvinistic, it would not be the best idea to try to "Legislate Away" either view. Honestly, I tend to think a parting of ways might be appropriate if things boil over (and they may one day)...This is the major issue of our day I think, and both camps are gearing up.

Actually, the Calvinists were up and busy at 3:00 a.m. and the sleeping and otherwise lazy and incompetent Arminians finally figured out that the Calvinists were on the move sometime around 9:00 a.m. In the meantime, they have started to gear up to defend the ground they've held for so long.

But rather than letting the theology which resides with the best missionaries and soul winners and church builders take over due to their work- so many Arminian Baptists are using crooked means to smother the return of Calvinism to its dominant position in Southern Baptist life.

I don't think it's the Church-builders that bother anyone, nor is it the missionaries...it's when say, an established Arminian Baptist Church (Built by Arminians) goes, say, looking for a new pastor and under no compulsion to state his actual beliefs, a new Calvinist Pastor comes in...Never calls himself "Calvinist", but merely preaches a lot about "grace" and what-not...garners a following, and then 3 years into his new ministry. The congregation realizes that this guy believes that Jesus does not, in fact, love a whole lot of people. THEN, it becomes a struggle wherein the Arminians are run off, or the pastor is run off, or the Church splits :tear:

Perhaps that scenario is why the Convention sent that literature to that Church looking for a new pastor. Honestly, there have been a lot of similar scenarios where a Calvinist goes to an other-wise Arminian Church and is not up-front about it and it becomes a problem:

"Chuch-Building" is fine, "Taking-Over" a Church with alternative beliefs is NOT.

Why not let the best Kingdom builders win?

Agreed. That, or a split in the convention should occur. Honestly, I don't know which one.
Perhaps that is an issue which is too important Theologically that a peaceable parting of ways is the best option.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Pistols at 20 paces!

 

[Salty]

Pistols at 20 paces!

does this fall under the guidlines of the new gun laws?

 

[Crabtownboy]

If you look carefully at the life of Jesus you will see that he cared much more about how people lived and treated each other than about every jot and tiddle of their beliefs.

Reading through the give and take in this thread I truly wonder if:

1. It makes Jesus want to throw up.
   [*]It makes Jesus want to laugh at our foolishness.
   
   
   I cannot figure out how I can do both at the same time.
   
   Blessings.

 

[Old Union Brother]

Luke said the following

There has been tension between General Baptists and Particular Baptists since the 1630's.

There has been tension between General Baptists and Particular Baptists since the 1630's.

There have been times when the General Baptist Arminianism was dominate.

There have also been times when the Particular Baptist Calvinism was dominate.

Southern Baptists have historically been open to both views.

Luke is absolutely correct in what he said here. The part I bolded is troubling. To me that implies that you don't know what you are going to get till you get in side, like a Forrest Gump: "My momma always said, "Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."

We may have our problems, but at least I know what doctrine of salvation I am going to hear when I walk into one of our church houses.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Luke said the following


Luke is absolutely correct in what he said here. The part I bolded is troubling. To me that implies that you don't know what you are going to get till you get in side, like a Forrest Gump: "My momma always said, "Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."

We may have our problems, but at least I know what doctrine of salvation I am going to hear when I walk into one of our church houses.

You may have a good point here:
It's not easy to be willing to see the SBC divided, but it may be the best thing in the end.

 

[12strings]

No, it isn't. If it came from the SBC HQ that is inappropriate and perhaps you should say something. Just make sure that it wasn't from a State Convention which may have a different set of rules.

I'm sure it was from a state convention, or more local leadership. I have seen the same type of things happening in my area. I know of one SBC church planter who couldn't get state help because of his reformed views. When that happens, nobody wins.

I don't think it's the Church-builders that bother anyone, nor is it the missionaries...it's when say, an established Arminian Baptist Church (Built by Arminians) goes, say, looking for a new pastor and under no compulsion to state his actual beliefs, a new Calvinist Pastor comes in...Never calls himself "Calvinist", but merely preaches a lot about "grace" and what-not...garners a following, and then 3 years into his new ministry. The congregation realizes that this guy believes that Jesus does not, in fact, love a whole lot of people. THEN, it becomes a struggle wherein the Arminians are run off, or the pastor is run off, or the Church splits :tear:

If Young pastors are being deceptive about thier beliefs, then in that situation, nobody wins either.

 

[HankD]

does this fall under the guidlines of the new gun laws?

Yes, but only a single action six shot revolver without a high power sight may be used by the participants.

Each participant must have had and paid for a 6 week training course in dueling.

Participants will receive a duelling permit after paying the appropriate fee and passing the written duelling examination (an additional fee for the test will be paid for on the day of the test).

All weapons to be used must be registered and the appropriate fee paid for the purpose of using the weapon in a duel.

All weapons to be used in the duel must be examined by an ATF officer (paid for by the participants) just prior to the duel.

Dueling must be performed in designated dueling areas ONLY (a slight fee will be charged for the use of the field).

Note: All fees must be paid up by the participants BEFORE the commencement of the duel.

Some states have group duel discounts, all other laws and fees apply.

Still, you had better check with your local law enforcement agencies first.

HankD

 

[Tom Bryant]

does this fall under the guidlines of the new gun laws?

No but it does come under the "This is immature stupidity" guidelines.

 

[salzer mtn]

In my immediate area all the churches are Arminian. There are now two sovereign grace churches, one to the east of me that is twenty five miles away that was started in the eighties and one south of me that is thirty five miles away which was started about ten years ago. The members in both churches all came out of Arminian churches. I think if you done a poll there would be more people that came out of Arminianism and went to Calvinism than the opposite. Personaly i don't know anyone that once was a Calvinist and then turned into a Arminian.