Let your women keep silent...

[awaken]

I am very glad that at my evangelical baptist church we have got with Gods program, and have let our women speak, testify and teach in church.

Praise the Lord.

I love to hear the Word taught...don't care what sex they are...as long as they are teaching the truth!

I think this scripture sums it up for me...
THere is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ANd if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:28-29)

 

[Alive in Christ]

I love to hear the Word taught...don't care what sex they are...as long as they are teaching the truth!

I think this scripture sums it up for me...
THere is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ANd if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:28-29)

I agree completly. :godisgood:

 

[DHK]

I bored you with all that to say...
To understand the context of a woman keeping silent, Paul does not use the word for a woman making intelligent words or speech, but the word for making sounds. It was about disturbing the service and not about teaching and instructing with an intelligent sound and voice. Obviously women were permitted to pray and prophesy and were active in ministry. (Acts 21:9; 18:24-28; Romans 16:1-6; 1 Cor. 11:5)

If you are going to use Greek then go to college and take at least a couple of years and study the language. What you said is complete nonsense, and simply not true. It is the equivalent of posting ignorance and misinformation. Ethically it is wrong.

lelew is the common word in the NT to speak. Never does it refer to just making sounds. It is intelligent speech. Your forced definition of "making sounds" inferring tongue-speaking of today which was never done in the Bible is wrong.
The word simply means to talk, to speak, to say, referring to communication.
In that vein a woman was never to teach a man nor have authority over a man; she was to remain silent in the church as the Scriptures dictated.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Paul may say "let them keep silent". However, the real question is how? :laugh:

But really, is this an issue? From my time at my old church Women never disrupted the service. What was more the issue was gossip and that applies to both sexes.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Awaken...

You posted...

To understand the context of a woman keeping silent, Paul does not use the word for a woman making intelligent words or speech, but the word for making sounds. It was about disturbing the service and not about teaching and instructing with an intelligent sound and voice. Obviously women were permitted to pray and prophesy and were active in ministry. (Acts 21:9; 18:24-28; Romans 16:1-6; 1 Cor. 11:5)

Needless to say, you are absolutely correct on this. Unfortunetly, there are so very many who just will not let go of thier "sacred cow" regarding this issue

Its quite sad, to be honest.

 

[DHK]

Awaken...

You posted...



Needless to say, you are absolutely correct on this. Unfortunetly, there are so very many who just will not let go of thier "sacred cow" regarding this issue

Its quite sad, to be honest.

The word is for "speech" not "but the word for making sounds," That is misinformation and a lie if you want to put it that way. Why would you agree with it?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

THe word laleo refers to the ability or use of the organs of speech, giving a sound, utterance, or expressing words with your voice. Lego means to speak in the sense of declaring an intelligible message.

Laleo emphasizes the outward form of speech, and lego refers to the substance and meaning of what has been spoken. Laleo refers to the act of speaking, while lego declares what the speaker is actually says.

Laleo is also used for the sounds made by birds, insects, bees and even the sound of a trumpet, thunder, voice of the dragon speaking (Rev. 13:11), voice given to the image of the beast. THe word was also used when infants would jabber before they could articulate words. THe root word for laleo is las, illustrating the effort of a child to make its first sound.

I bored you with all that to say...
To understand the context of a woman keeping silent, Paul does not use the word for a woman making intelligent words or speech, but the word for making sounds. It was about disturbing the service and not about teaching and instructing with an intelligent sound and voice. Obviously women were permitted to pray and prophesy and were active in ministry. (Acts 21:9; 18:24-28; Romans 16:1-6; 1 Cor. 11:5)

:thumbsup:

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I am very glad that at my evangelical baptist church we have got with Gods program, and have let our women speak, testify and teach in church.

Praise the Lord.

:thumbsup:

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Yep. They should use the gift if givem it.

But not at church. Shut up at church. Preach everywhere else.

Do you wear a head covering in church?

Just wondering if you follow all of Paul's strictures or just one of them.

 

[awaken]

If you are going to use Greek then go to college and take at least a couple of years and study the language. What you said is complete nonsense, and simply not true. It is the equivalent of posting ignorance and misinformation. Ethically it is wrong.

lelew is the common word in the NT to speak. Never does it refer to just making sounds. It is intelligent speech. Your forced definition of "making sounds" inferring tongue-speaking of today which was never done in the Bible is wrong.
The word simply means to talk, to speak, to say, referring to communication.
In that vein a woman was never to teach a man nor have authority over a man; she was to remain silent in the church as the Scriptures dictated.

So now you have to go to college for the Holy Spirit to teach you?

In 1 Timothy 2:11-12 Paul wrote that the women were not to "upsup authority over the man" (kjv). The Greek word for "usurp" is authenteo and means, "to act upon your own, or to dominate over."

In 1 Cor. 14:28, if a person speaks outloud in tongues in a church sevice and no one interprets, then they are to "keep silence" (kjv). This Greek word is sigao and means, "to hold your peace and say nothing else." It is used when the multitude kept silent while Paul and Barnabas were speaking (Acts 15:12) and when Paul gave a speech before a group of men (Acts 21:40). In 1 cor. 14:34 Paul said for the women to keep silent, and he used this word, sigao--to say nothing--as they were disturbing the speaker by interupting. As the minister spoke, they were to listen and ask no questions at that time for explanations.

 

[DHK]

So now you have to go to college for the Holy Spirit to teach you?

Here is what the Holy Spirit teaches:

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
--Greek is not among them.
Yes, you must go to college in order to learn Greek. By your postings I know you don't have the intelligence of a William Carey or a Charles Spurgeon, so one must go to college, learn the language, and not post in ignorance.

In 1 Timothy 2:11-12 Paul wrote that the women were not to "upsup authority over the man" (kjv). The Greek word for "usurp" is authenteo and means, "to act upon your own, or to dominate over."

Let's see what Matthew Poole says about, an English nonconformist theologian of the mid-17th century.
1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

Ver. 11. That is, in the public assemblies for worship, it is the woman's part silently to learn, showing thereby a subjection to the man, who is the head of the woman.

1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Ver. 12. But I suffer not a woman to teach; not to teach in the public congregation, except she be a prophetess, endued with extraordinary gifts of the Spirit, as Mary, and Anna, and Huldah, and Deborah, and some women in the primitive church, concerning whom we read, 1Co 11:5, that they prophesied. Nor to usurp authority over the man: ordinary teaching of the woman was a usurpation of authority over the man, who is the head, which the apostle also forbade in 1Co 11:3, and here repeateth. It is probable that the speaking of some women in the church who had extraordinary revelations, imboldened others also to aim at the like, which the apostle here directs his speech against. Nevertheless women may, and it is their duty to instruct their children and families at home, especially in the absence of their husbands.

1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

Ver. 13. The man had the priority of the woman in his creation, he was not made for her, but she was made for a help-mate mate for him; therefore she, being made for him, ought to usurp no authority over him.

That is what a noted theologian says, one that knew the original languages. I don't post in ignorance. I also have studied Greek. From my study in Greek, I know what you said about the word lelew (to speak) is completely false. The word is one of the most common and basic to the Greek language, and one cannot assign arbitrarily such mystical meanings as you have.

Concerning this passage in 1Tim.2:11-13, Poole does an excellent job of expounding the entire passage with clarity.

In 1 Cor. 14:28, if a person speaks outloud in tongues in a church sevice and no one interprets, then they are to "keep silence" (kjv).

If you interrupted me while I was preaching I would probably just ask you to leave--tongues or no tongues. How rude can you be!!

This Greek word is sigao and means, "to hold your peace and say nothing else." It is used when the multitude kept silent while Paul and Barnabas were speaking (Acts 15:12) and when Paul gave a speech before a group of men (Acts 21:40). In 1 cor. 14:34 Paul said for the women to keep silent, and he used this word, sigao--to say nothing--as they were desturbing the speaker by interupting. As the minister spoke, they were to listen and no ask at that time for explanations.

And yet it is directed only to women, and also in the context of tongues. That is significant. Women don't speak in tongues. (That is a command).
Women keep silence. (another command)
Women ask your husbands at home. (another command)
Women don't have authority over men.
Women don't teach men.

Fairly clear isn't it?

 

[awaken]

Here is what the Holy Spirit teaches:

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
--Greek is not among them.
Yes, you must go to college in order to learn Greek. By your postings I know you don't have the intelligence of a William Carey or a Charles Spurgeon, so one must go to college, learn the language, and not post in ignorance.

When are you going to stop attacking me personally?? Did the apostles have great education? ...or were they unlearned men?

Let's see what Matthew Poole says about, an English nonconformist theologian of the mid-17th century.
1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.


That is what a noted theologian says, one that knew the original languages. I don't post in ignorance. I also have studied Greek. From my study in Greek, I know what you said about the word lelew (to speak) is completely false. The word is one of the most common and basic to the Greek language, and one cannot assign arbitrarily such mystical meanings as you have.

Concerning this passage in 1Tim.2:11-13, Poole does an excellent job of expounding the entire passage with clarity.


If you interrupted me while I was preaching I would probably just ask you to leave--tongues or no tongues. How rude can you be!!

And yet it is directed only to women, and also in the context of tongues. That is significant. Women don't speak in tongues. (That is a command).
Women keep silence. (another command)
Women ask your husbands at home. (another command)
Women don't have authority over men.
Women don't teach men.

Fairly clear isn't it?

NO, because you explain it without understanding the Hebraic roots..

 

[DHK]

When are you going to stop attacking me personally?? Did the apostles have great education? ...or were they unlearned men?

They were only "accused" of being unlearned men. Unlearned is one thing they weren't. In fact the Apostle Paul was probably the most educated person on the face of the earth at that time.
Just because people like Peter and John were fishermen from Galilee and were accused of being "unlearned" doesn't make that accusation true.
They both knew at least five different languages. How many do you know?
When John writes he often gives the Hebrew word, and then the Greek translation of it. Matthew quoted from the OT extensively, more than any other writer. Was he ignorant? Could an "ignorant" man write a book so complex as the Book of Revelation? John (one of the ones accused of unlearned) wrote a gospel of 22 chapters, an apocalyptic book of 22 chapters and then three epistles to add to that. Were they really ignorant?

NO, because you explain it without understanding the Hebraic roots..

It is a Greek word (lalew).
It doesn't have Hebrew roots!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I am content to let the rest of you argue over this subject. I am convinced of the correctness of what I believe, but this is one subject that could easily devolve into a p*****g contest, and I have no desire to be a part of that, as I see signs of that beginning to happen already. Who knows, if it returns to civility, I might contribute further.

 

[awaken]

I am content to let the rest of you argue over this subject. I am convinced of the correctness of what I believe, but this is one subject that could easily devolve into a p*****g contest, and I have no desire to be a part of that, as I see signs of that beginning to happen already. Who knows, if it returns to civility, I might contribute further.

YOur input is appreciated...:thumbs:

 

[awaken]

One other thing to consider...
In 1 Timothy 2:11, when women are told to keep silence, the Greek word for "silence" is different throm the word used in 1 Cor. 14:34. Hesuchia is a word meaning, "more of being still and in quietness, or fiuratively away from the bustle and the noise." So to put it one way, Paul is saying, "Let them be at peace and not attempt to rise up against the spiritual authority of the men in the church." If men were teaching, then women were to subject to the male teachers, and not rise up and challenge their authority.

If a person reads 1 Cor. 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:11 without researching textual and historical context, it would seem Paul was very much against women saying or doing anything in a church setting. However, the Greek words, the context, and the cultural traditions of the day have a bearing upon understanding the intent of Paul's instructions. Paul had women who assisted him in ministry (Philippians 4:2-3). Not to mention womens role in the OT.

 

[awaken]

When Mary presented the infant Christ at the temple..Anna saw the child and prophesied under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Something to think about...
Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Naodiah, and Isaiah's wife were all specifically called prophetesses in the OT....Why would God allow women to prophesy in the OT and forbid it in the NT? Womenn could prophesy for four thousand years, but after Pentecost and the birth of the church God only used men and made the women sit down?

Philip had four daughters who operated in the prophetic gift under the New Covenant.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Paul may say "let them keep silent". However, the real question is how? :laugh:

But really, is this an issue? From my time at my old church Women never disrupted the service. What was more the issue was gossip and that applies to both sexes.

Tell women to shut up or leave.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Do you wear a head covering in church?

Just wondering if you follow all of Paul's strictures or just one of them.

I cover my head. I wrap it tightly with gauze when I go to church.

 

[SaggyWoman]

Pretty Clear. And since I don't have a husband at home, I find someone else's husband and go to their home. Ask Away!!!