OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Scandelon, where are you?
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Let's discuss the differing views of Biblical Election
- Thread starter Skandelon
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Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
And why do people reject Jesus under your system? Because they aren't chosen...ie. "few are chosen" At least that is how I've seen it applied by Cals. Is that different from the way you apply it?
quantumfaith
Active Member
SKandelon :smilewinkgrin::smilewinkgrin:
Why in Big ole Tx....aaaacourse! :laugh:
Heck, now Im hungry for some Barbecue.:thumbs:
Heck, now Im hungry for some Barbecue.:thumbs:
This is a major difference..thanks for asking this question:
People reject Jesus because they are born spiritually dead in Adam.....unable and unwilling to come to Jesus ...apart from the Spirit of God.
What we call calvinism is a comprehensive view of God's electing ,redemptive purpose unfolded in time.
the five points stand or fall as a unit.....no 3, or 4 pointers please.
No.....they reject Jesus because of sin, satan, and the flesh, which are all hostile to God.Rom8:7..2cor4
Election has nothing...nothing at all to do with their rejection of God.
Adam's fall is where we look for the why men reject the saving message.
Now....why do ...ANY....come to Christ...that is where election is God's love before time....jer 31:3:thumbs::thumbs:
Election is in scripture a positive teaching that gives true comfort to the true believers...because we can rejoice in God's immutability ..in which every covenant promise will happen Heb6:17
The real issue is.....have you, and your family, and those we witness to...fled for refuge in Jesus.....If we have fled...it is because God elected us to do so.:thumbsup:
Ps. This section of hebrews is enough to make any of us rejoice and give prayerful thanksgiving to God for his abundant mercy to us.....when this section is understood in light of verse 9..on down..showing the contrast between the believer and the apostate...but what a splendid truth.
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
A "System" has nothing to do with people rejecting Jesus Christ. Even the elect will reject Jesus Christ until they are resurrected from spiritual death. That is called "regeneration".
John 5:25, 26
25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Ephesians 2:1-6
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Obviously. But, I think you know what I meant...."according to your doctrinal views...."
I know that is what you believe, that is what I meant by "under your system."
Calvinism teaches ALL men are born completely unable to believe the gospel of Christ, but John 12:39-41 and Acts 28:21-28 clearly teaches otherwise. The reason Israel couldn't believe and 'come to Christ' is much different than what your system teaches.
Israel had become calloused "otherwise they might have seen, heard, understood and repented."
Jesus spoke in parable to prevent the teachers of the law from believing and repenting. (Mk 4; Matt 13) Tell me why that would even be necessary if your views of total inability were true? Why would God need to blind a man born totally blind from birth?
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Right, which is the same as being unchosen by God, thus 'many are called few are chosen.' You haven't changed anything about the typical Cal application of this text and your disapproval of my use of the word "few."
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
If that were the only reason then EVERYONE would reject Jesus. The difference is whether or not they are chosen and thus the typical application of the passage in question: "many are called few are chosen." You can't avoid it. Just admit that my use of the word 'few' was completely reasonable in reference to what you believe and teach.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I stand Corrected!:tonofbricks::tonofbricks:
Due to our fallen sinful natures, indeed, ALL would reject Jesus to save them, as they would prefer to stay in the dark and "save themselves/play god!"
That is exactly why God MUST act as cals state here in order to have ANY saved!
resident "4 pointer" here chiming in here...
Just curious, what is a "3 pointer?" never heard of them!
preacher4truth
Active Member
Funny thing is we are actually applying passages, and this is called "typical" as if doing so diminishes this to a level of triviality.
Hmmmm, how interesting.
God chose us, that's what the Scriptures say. Yes, I know, how "typical" of me to allude to this.
:wavey:
Guess since in some minds here DoG are heretical, then anything that one says regarding this topic comes from a bad source, period!
No it is not the same at all.
YES....EVERYONE would and does reject Jesus......that is exactly why God elected a multitude to save......All were condemned...in mercy he saves a multitude,...the second half of post 105 shows the positive teaching and need of biblical election.
preacher4truth
Active Member
He also reserved 7000 who didn't bow their knee to Baal. Why didn't He reserve ALL of them? Because it is God who chooses.
Bro, there is a serious issue that these are having with God choosing.
Well yes,,,,many who struggle with election see it as a negative...that is where they say it makes God a respecter of persons...or the monster comments.
Most all who simply embrace this biblical truth...rejoice with Paul in EPH1 and praise God for his electing grace and mercy!
When they start out to fight against it...they will never see it....the result is a loss of the comfort that the Covenant of redemption , applied in time in the covenant of grace is meant to give to God's people.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
they look at the verses...but it passes by them....because for some they say.....oh- calvinism...or a calvinist take, when they should say....yes, that is exactly what scripture declares....let me see how i can understand this as it is intended
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How about the Apostle Paul stating in Romans that God had reserved a "faithful remnant" from out of the midst of isreal, who had accepted jesus as messiah?
God allowed rest to stay in their own sinfulness...
TWO doctrines would kike to see adress would be Election and remnant in Bible!
Think 2 go hand in hand!
preacher4truth
Active Member
Yep. One on here stated God is no respecter of persons (against my saying God chooses according to His purpose) then alluded that Abram did some godly things, which was to imply why he was chosen as a rebuttal. So God chose because he (Abram) "did" something, yet, I'm the one making God a respecter of persons? :laugh:
The reference he used was of not refusing to sacrifice Isaac. The thing is, God chose Abram way before that, on His terms, which is the way it works for all of us.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
God does the choosing. I see that doesn't sit too well with some. Back to the same old same old "unfair" nonsense.
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