Let's try something different....

So that brings us to "Exactly How and When is one BORN AGAIN?"

 

Gooooooooooooooooood morning guys.
How are all my battle-worn soldiers of the faith? God bless ya.

I am sooooooooooo on topic, I swear. See, I'm just going to make a comment.

Er, I was born again when Christ revealed to me my inadequacy and drew me to himself and transformed me into a child of God.

(That was on topic. )

 

It's called regeneration Wes.

You can't see the light if your blind. And you are NOT ABLE to "unblind" yourself are you?

No man is ABLE to come to me unless the father DRAGS him....

 

KJV Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

He dragged me.

"God is, if I may say so, very unscrupulous."
--C. S. Lewis

 

I love C.S. Lewis...

He and Jonathan Edwards is what changed John Piper's lifes theology "Christian Hedonism".

He dragged me also! I was to busy mocking him thinking I was god.. doing whatever I WILL... Thank God he gave me a new heart.

 

I was busy worrying about how come it didn't work when I chose him, or tried to choose him . . . and I wasn't good enough. And i kept trying and it didn't work.

But he got me. Tossed a net out and pulled me in.

"A young man who wishes to remain a sound Atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. There are traps everywhere--'Bibles laid open, millions of surprises,' as Herbert says, 'fine nets and stratagems.' God is, if I may say it, very unscrupulous." --C.S. Lewis

 

Thanks for your testamonies, but you did not answer the question! You gave me your opinion!

 

Wes, I did.

Regeneration happens, God gives him a new heart. Gives him a spiritual understanding. Opens his spiritual eyes... He's BORN again to see the kingdom of God. ON this moment he by his own free will and choice, loves Christ.

If you want a complete Ordo Salutis, with scripture, this will take a while.

 

Can someone explain to me how the Bible is true to those who are not part of the "elect"?

For instance, I am witnessing to an unbeliever. I don't know if they would be "elect" or not. I am showing them scripture how to have a relationship with Christ (John 3:16, Romans 10:13, Romans 10:8-10, etc.). They are reading the scripture with me. If this person never accepts Christ, and would be considered predestined to hell according to calvinism, how is the Bible, particularly the verses on salvation true to them? How would my testimony and converstion be true? I would say it couldn't be true, because "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" would not apply to the non elect, so it would have to be a lie. If that is a lie, then God would have to be a lie according to John 1:1. A sermon on salvation would be a lie to the non elect, also. So is the Bible only true to the "elect"? Based on that, and the fact that most humans will spend eternity in hell, the Bible then was compiled for over 1400+ years, and Christ's death and atonement were meant for roughly 1 in 4 people?

 

Webdog,
Can you show us where the bible was written expressly for the elect?

 

Sorry, I worded that wrong. That is my question, isn't the Bible written for all men? Salvation would only be true to the elect, no? Wouldn't the Bible be a lie to the non elect?

 

I agree, the bible was written to ALL mankind, not to some nebulous group that no one can identify that some refer to as "the elect".

The Word of God was first given to HIS Elect, who indeed still use the portion given through Moses and the prophets. That which was given through the Apostles is not accepted, just as Jesus was not accepted by his own. So God extended the scope to include "whosoever believeth", giving no credit to "election"!

 

Then according to my original post, when I show an unbeliever, considered "non elect" by calvinisms standards, scripture on salvation, it would then be a lie to the "non elect", correct? If that is correct, the Bible is a lie to a lot more than it is true to (if calvanism were correct). That would make God a liar according to John 1:1. I have a calvinist friend that will refuse to answer this.

 

If something is true it is true whether you believe it or not. This is silly logic. It is true to the elect and reprobate. An "unbeliever" isn't necessarily a "non elect" . We were all "unbelievers at one point or another (for the most part). This does not discourage God's divine decree before time. What he for-ordains will come to pass.

 

That is still not answering the question. It's not silly logic, it's simple logic. CAN THE WORDS ON THE PAGE BE THE TRUTH TO THE NON ELECT. Simple yes or no.

 

It IS silly logic because not every statement in scripture is directed straight at you. For example, God said- "a worldwide flood is coming- go build a boat." Does this mean you should go build a boat? God said, "Go up to that mountain and sacrifice." Should you go up and sacrifice? Context, context, context. Every word of the Bible may PROFIT you, but not every word is REGARDING you. So then a reprobate, non-elect person reading a verse that applies to the elect- is reading something that has nothing to do with them. Where do you cavil with this concept?

 

It's no wonder. Have you had an atheist ask you the 'can God create a rock so heavy He cannot life it?' I don't answer that question either: The question is flawed and therefore requires no answer.

 

A clear matter of perspective! Don't get wrapped around the axle over it!