HOW did Jesus become our sin bearer, and if he is such, what would he have to experience being seen by the father now as the sin bearer representing his own before Him now?
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Lewis on Atonement theories
- Thread starter JonC
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Who cares? It is what is stated in the text of Scripture. That is my point. We differ because how we handle Scripture.
Scriptures teach that Jesus died in the stead.place of us!
The same way I can say the theory of evolution is not biblical and wrong.
Who cares about Pauline Justification is really what you are saying here!
You can use evidence and proof to back that claim up, but cannot use scripture to defeat Psa!
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That is what I mean. You believe that is what Scripture teaches. But that is not what the text of Scripture states. I believe "what is written", you believe what you think is taught.
No. What I am saying is you do not understand Pauline Justification. This is evident as you hold it apart from Scripture.
Paul never writes that Jesus died instead of us dying. Instead Paul writes that Christ died for us, for our sins, and we must die with Him.
No, I believe that the biblical model of Pauline Justification is the view that Jesus actually died in our stead, and had to endure exactly what we would do if we still had to be judged for our own sins!
No, you refuse to accept that in Jesus, God the father judged and treated him exactly as all lost sinners will be!
Jesus was our sin bearer, not our example!
I do not understand what you mean.
If I call my view Biblical Atonement, that does not explain my view.
But if I say "classic view" people understand it is not the "Latin view". Or if I call it Victorious Christ it shows a focus (just like Penal Substitution Theory focuses on wrath).
I call these views what they are called. The Latin view (Satisfaction theory, Substitution Theory, Penal Substitution Theory), the Classic view (Ransom theory, Recapitulation, Moral Influence Theory, etc.).
Wrong. Jesus is our sin bearer AND our example.
Philippians 2:5–11 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
I accept what is written in God's Word.
Provide a passage I have rejected.
Example -. You posted that Christ is not our example. This is a rejection of Philippians 2:5–11.
was Jesus judged by God the father exactly in the same fashion that he will judge all lost sinners die to them still having to bear their own sins?
You keep saying that you accept all that is written, all here do that, its just we cannot use our 'super spiritual gift" to be able to state that one view is totally wrong or right!
No, of course not. That is not even close to Christian doctrine.
You did that to me. Without using any Scripture you determined my view was wrong.
The standard, however, is not human opinion but Scripture. God's Word ("what is written") is the test of doctrine.
The Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement fails that test.
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