Liberals Get What They Wanted...High Fuel Prices

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by saturneptune:
Joseph,
Excellent post!!! The fact is that both parties are scum, and dont care about the American people.

Joseph, would you consider running for President under the US Constitution party. You got my vote.

No I wouldn't because I am not an isolationist.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by saturneptune:
Ken,
News Flash!!! Joseph is right. You are falling into the old trap of one corrupt party fighting with another corrupt party. The fight is a facade to protect their power base so the American people think they have a choice. If thats what you want to believe, go ahead. Both parties need beiefs such as this.

SN,

News Flash!!! Ken is part of the big oil establishment, which explains perfectly why he is so offended by my posts.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[saturneptune]

Ken,
The point is that you are giving the oil companies a pass on their piggery that they do not deserve. They are ripping off the American people.

Joseph, ok, run on a party that is not isolationist, and you have my vote. The idea is that your plan for the gas problem makes more sense than anything I have heard.

Ken, by the way, in all your posts, you offer no solutions.

 

[KenH]

For everyone's information, according to Senator Pryor, the FTC investigation of the price spikes last autumn after the twin hurricanes is supposed to be published next month.

When it shows that there was no price gouging other than some isolated incidents at some individual stations I wonder if Joseph and Senator Pryor and Bill O'Reilly will apologize for besmirching the reputation of oil companies?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Poor oil companies. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Joseph Botwinick

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
which explains perfectly why is so offended by my posts.

And you can't refute one iota of my economic anaylsis because my case is ironclad and all you and your buddy Senator Pryor have is populist poppycock.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by saturneptune:
you are giving the oil companies a pass on their piggery

Again, put up or shut up, saturnneptune. All I am reading in this thread by you folks is a bunch of populist poppycock. Where is your proof of "piggery"? If you buy a house for $50,000 and twenty years later you sell it for $150,000 would you forgo the $100,000 profit because you don't "deserve" it? Or would you charge yourself with "piggery"?

And you have yet to refute one iota of my economic analysis. So since you can't win the logical debate, you are forced to rely on bromides.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

The obvous difference is that most Americans don't feel that strong of a need to buy the house at 150,000, because they usually can find other options. Most everyone, however, has to go to work, and has to have gas to get there.

The point is simple to see:

1. Big oil says they have to raise prices to stay afloat because of <inset excuse here>.

2. Big oil jacks the price of gas too high.

3. Big oil maintains record profits because nobody holds them accountable for their inconsistency.

4. When regular Americans point this out, they get mad, call people names, and then throw a bunch of "marketplace" bull out there to intimidate us to shut up. Well, guess what? I am not shutting up. I don't want to run for president. I have no political axe to grind. All I want is a fair price.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by saturneptune:
Ken, by the way, in all your posts, you offer no solutions.

1) People need to buy more fuel efficient cars(which is what I did a year ago when I traded in my pickup truck for a Honda Accord. Even though the price of gasoline is much higher now than a year ago my gasoline expense is still the same.)

2) We need to drill in ANWR, off the East Coast, off the coast of California.

3) We need to build more refineries.

The environmentalists won't like points 2) and 3) but if folks like President Bush and Senator Schumer are serious about doing something then they need to stand up to the environmentalists. Otherwise, they are just engaging in political posturing.

Exxon Mobil giving a $400 million retirement package to its ex-CEO was a huge public relations blunder. A windfall profits tax would be an even worst blunder by the government. It wouldn't lower the price of gasoline at all while lowering oil companies' earnings which would hurt their stock price. And lots of pension plans and mutual funds in 401(k)'s and IRA's own oil companies' stock and that would hurt these retirement plans. It would be cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. Plus history tells us that when the government taxes something that we end up with less of it. Which is exactly what the recent report about the earlier windfall profits tax under President Carter proved.

The NYMEX needs to raise the margin requirements for oil and gasoline contracts traded there to reduce the ability of speculators and commodity funds to drive up the price of oil every time the president of Iran or the president of the United States says something provocative, or there is turmoil in Nigeria or other major oil producing countries.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
All I want is a fair price.

Okay, Joseph. Today, on April 29, 2006, when you go to the pump what should the pump price be? What is the "fair" price? And how did you calculate this "fair" price?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

See? Ken agrees with all the solutions that I gave that don't hold the oil companies accountable to do anything different, or lower some of their RECORD profits.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
The obvous difference is that most Americans don't feel that strong of a need to buy the house at 150,000, because they usually can find other options.

My point was about the seller, Joseph, not the buyer. But since you still have the losing end of this argument as you did last autumn I understand why you try to avoid the main points.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
the solutions that I gave that don't hold the oil companies accountable to do anything different, or lower some of their RECORD profits.

What do you want oil companies to do differently? How do you want them to lower their profits? Be specific.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by KenH:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
All I want is a fair price.

Okay, Joseph. Today, on April 29, 2006, when you go to the pump what should the pump price be? What is the "fair" price? And how did you calculate this "fair" price? </font>[/QUOTE]No higher than $1.00 per gallon. Take away all the bull and the excuses the oil company has been feeding us since 9-11, and that is about where it was before.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
I am not shutting up.

Okay. So either refute the economics of the situation that I presented(which are irrefutable) or else you can keep on spewing forth mindless populist poppycock.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by KenH:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
the solutions that I gave that don't hold the oil companies accountable to do anything different, or lower some of their RECORD profits.

What do you want oil companies to do differently? How do you want them to lower their profits? Be specific. </font>[/QUOTE]Very simple:

Stop the excuses for raising oil prices and lower them to where you can make a profit, but not record profits. If you are making record profits, don't feed me this bull that you had to because of 9-11, Katrina, Iran, or any amount of other excuses to gouge me and make me feel ok about it.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
No higher than $1.00 per gallon.

Let's see it costs $1.71/gal. to buy oil on the NYMEX today. Then it has to be tranported to a refinery, processed in a refinery, then transported to a gasoline station, and then, in Arkansas, state and federal taxes have to be tacked on for $0.401/gal.

So you expect oil companies to sell you gasoline at a loss of about $1.20/gal. Forgetaboutit, Joseph. Just keep spewing forth your mindless populist poppycock.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
don't feed me this bull

Well, you are filling ths thread with mindless populist poppycock. I have been presenting economic reality. You and your buddy, Senator Pryor, may not like reality but ya'll can't change the principles of economics.

It's very clear that you have very little understanding of economics if you think gasoline should be selling at the pump for $1.00/gal. on April 29, 2006. Here read this:

http://jim.com/econ/contents.html

then come back to the subject when you can actually discuss it competently.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Ken agrees with all the solutions

The solutions that I gave will actually work to lower the price of gasoline versus what it will otherwise in the years to come. All of your and Senator Pryor's populist poppcock won't lower the price of gasoline a single penny.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Ken,

You repeated all of my solutions which I listed earlier except one. Did you read my post?

Joseph Botwinick