Libertarian Free will vs. Compatibilism

[Andy T.]

Your view is like a kid playing with army men where he controls every acts of every participant in order to ensure a victory in the battle.

Do you really think this is what we believe, or was this just an intentional strawman?

I don't know. I think most objective observers would think the open view of God is bigger than yours...

The implication being that the C's are the real heretics, while the O's are not, since their view of God is so much nicer and compelling.

 

[glfredrick]

Do you really think this is what we believe, or was this just an intentional strawman?


The implication being that the C's are the real heretics, while the O's are not, since their view of God is so much nicer and compelling.

Rather surprising (or not) for one who claims to have been and to know Calvinism, but who changed his mind toward a more anthropologically pleasing theology... :applause:

 

[Skandelon]

If you could be around to ask Moses about the utter sovereignty of God, what do you think that Moses' answer would be? Did Moses walk into the promised land? Weird, also, how Moses was preserved as an infant, yet his own mother was the one who nursed him (and likely taught him the tenets of God via his Hebrew heritage).

You make it sound as if Arminians don't believe in the direct decrees of God by which he does actively intervene in human history and choose divinely appointed messengers and bring about desired effects....i.e. Jonah and the big fish, Paul on road to Damascus, inspiration of scripture.

You do know we affirm these sovereign acts, right? In fact, by insisting that all acts are likewise the result of God's active decree one only undermines these sacred works of God as being common place...but that is for another discussion...

I could not disagree more, and what you have just said is utterly blasphemous!

So is what you said, if your view is wrong. Have you considered that?

 

[webdog]

Rather surprising (or not) for one who claims to have been and to know Calvinism, but who changed his mind toward a more anthropologically pleasing theology... :applause:

I specifically asked to leave the inflammatory language out of this, did you not read the op?

 

[Skandelon]

Rather surprising (or not) for one who claims to have been and to know Calvinism, but who changed his mind toward a more anthropologically pleasing theology... :applause:

It has nothing to do with what is more "pleasing," it has to do with what scripture reveals, period.

If it was about what is pleasing I'd probably be some form of a universalist...

 

[Andy T.]

Have you considered that?

I notice you like to throw this quip around quite a bit - the implication being that C's are the close-minded ones, while you are the generous open-minded saint. Have you ever considered that you were right before and wrong now? Don't bother answering - I'm sure you have, since you are the open-minded one.

 

[Skandelon]

I notice you like to throw this quip around quite a bit - the implication being that C's are the close-minded ones, while you are the generous open-minded saint. Have you ever considered that you were right before and wrong now? Don't bother answering - I'm sure you have, since you are the open-minded one.

I was talking about his accusation that my view of God makes Him appear "small" and his follow up that my rebuttal was "blasphemous." Which begs the question. My rebuttal was only blasphemous if we presume Calvinists are correct, so his accusation was likewise blasphemous if we presume Arminians are correct.

This reply had nothing to do with being closed or open-mined...

 

[Winman]

I could not disagree more, and what you have just said is utterly blasphemous!
Who can stand in the presence of Almighty God? Who is powerful enough to war against God? Only an utterly small god would have some other small god war against him (he, she, it, choose, for this is not the God of the Bible!).
A chess board analogy is also fatally flawed. There is no "game" except in the minds of rebellious humans and demons. God has always been King, period, hence the scriptural picture of Him resting upon His throne.

This error. There has been a war between God and Satan from the Garden. When God said he would put enmity between the serpent and woman in Gen 3:15, that was a declaration of war. And we see this throughout the scriptures as when Satan attempted to make Job fall and curse God, or when the Lord appeared to Daniel in chapter 10 saying he had been resisted by the prince of the kingdom of Persia for 21 days and Michael came to help him.
And there is strategy in this war, Paul revealed that the reason the gospel was kept a mystery is because the princes of this world would not have crucified Jesus if they had understood and thwarted God's plan (1 Cor 2:7-8).
This war is still going on until Revelation 20.

 

[Winman]

Back to the subject.

This might sound like a stupid question, but how do drugs or alcohol play out in the matter of the will?
For instance, a young lady goes to a bar. She has not had a drink yet. She is approached by a fellow who makes advances to her. She makes it obvious she is not interested in him and is being quite sincere. The fellow leaves.
Now, as the evening progresses, this young lady has far too much to drink and becomes quite intoxicated. The fellow sees this and approaches her again. In her drunken stupor she allows the fellow to talk her into going home with him. In the morning she awakes to discover she spent the night with him. She is repulsed and ashamed and leaves immediately.
The question is, was her will when she was intoxicated her true will or not?