Life and breath

[post-it]

From Grammy:

Post-it: It's NOT what Grammy says, it's what GOD says.

Why are you so offensive? Were you absent the day they taught "tact"? There ARE nice ways to debate issues without talking "down" to people, Post-it. It's not necessary to belittle PEOPLE when we're debating ISSUES.

(... I feel another shot coming )[/QB]

Sorry Grammy, I learned that low shot from a couple of fundy's here on the board. They hit me with it, so I figured it was ok to use on any body else. I guess I shouldn't have assumed the methods some right wings debate on this board would be "Christian Like", my mistake.

[ October 02, 2002, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Helen:
You are doing fine, Grammy.

God is in charge of life. He gives it. Suppose, as post-it is claiming, that the fetus is not alive until a certain stage during the gestation. He or she is, at the very least, incipient life from the time of conception on. God is still the one in charge even of that.

You and I know that conception marks the start of a new living human being. Post-it is trying to avoid that on some very spurious 'biblical' grounds. Nevertheless, whether it is a living being (and it is) or incipient life, God still knows what He is doing and to deny Him His sovereignty over life itself is a grevious sin from man's rebellious nature.

Incipient Life? Is this something new or something you made up. If scripture says life starts at first breath, then inceipient life would the the muscles moving to ready the body for the first breath and life. To say it was at conception wouldn't be inceipient life, it would be inceipient development of a fetus. Otherwise, we could say inceipient life was the gleam in Daddy's eye.

 

[Helen]

"The man said, 'The woman you put here with me -- she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it." (Genesis 3)

"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin,..." (Romans 5)

Passing the buck is not a good thing, post-it.

Why not do what is right because it is right?

Incipient Life? Is this something new or something you made up. If scripture says life starts at first breath, then inceipient life would the the muscles moving to ready the body for the first breath and life. To say it was at conception wouldn't be inceipient life, it would be inceipient development of a fetus. Otherwise, we could say inceipient life was the gleam in Daddy's eye.

1. I did not make it up, nor is it new. It is simply the only possible logical result of what you have been saying.

2. The Scriptures do NOT say life begins with the first breath.

3. The incipient development of a fetus is the incipient development of a baby, as the two words are synonyms. That baby is alive.

4. The gleam in daddy's eye is not about creating life, but enjoying it!

post-it, get real. Your statements are becoming more and more bizarre. Please stop a moment and really think about what you have been saying, OK? THINK about it; don't just spout off to defend what you have been saying. You have 'changed your mind' at least two times that I am aware of. Now, in light of that, slow down and start really thinking this thing through, both biblically and biologically. God is NOT going to say one thing in the Bible and then contradict Himself biologically. Creation also gives witness to His veracity.

[ October 02, 2002, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by post-it:
If scripture says life starts at first breath, then inceipient life would the the muscles moving to ready the body for the first breath and life. To say it was at conception wouldn't be inceipient life, it would be inceipient development of a fetus. Otherwise, we could say inceipient life was the gleam in Daddy's eye.

"If scripture says" is the key phrase. Scripture does not say. You listed your proof texts once. If I remember correctly, each of them either denoted the existence of life within a writer, the end of life, or the creation of Adam. The first two which are normative have nothing to do with when life begins. The last one is unarguably a special case. No one since Adam and Eve were created as full grown adults. Your argument about breath is based on what you wish scripture said, not what it says.

...but let's try this one more time. You hinge everything on the ability to inhale and exhale. But how many people die with this ability? Most of them! A heart attack victim may have perfectly healthy lungs but be dead none the less. Use your imagination for many other examples.

Also, if a person was dropped into a pure Nitrogen environment, it would not be the the inability to inhale and exhale that killed them... but it would be the inability to breath. So what is the breath of life? Any gas that is breathed in or must it be oxygen? If oxygen then the mechanism for obtaining the oxygen is NOT the breath of life. The oxygen is. Therefore, any creature that has a mechanism for taking oxygen from its environment to sustain itself possesses the "breath of life" by definition.