Life in prison or death penalty?

[church mouse guy]

Since you quote Matthew Henry, I guessing you believe the things he states. Let's take a look.God did not punish Cain with death. That was a "willful murder". God did not punish Moses with death for the "willful murder" of the Egyptian. God did not punish David for the "willful murder" of Uriah the Hittite. God did not punish Paul for the "willful murder" of Christians.

Maybe making an absolute statement that God will always punish willful murderers with death isn't supported by scripture.

When one defines "ought" it turns out that they should but not that they will. Matthew Henry discusses Cain, as you know: "... Before the flood, as it should seem by the story of Cain, God took the punishment of murder into his own hands; but now he committed this judgment to men,...." The other cases that you mention of Moses, David, and Paul would have to be examined in detail, but there is no indication that these exceptions overthrow the instructions to Noah or suggest that murder should go unpunished entirely.

Furthermore, if it is correct that the punishment of murder was delegated to human beings after the flood, then it is human failure that murder has gone unpunished and a sin on the part of men, who are supposed to execute murderers. And murderers are supposed to be executed quickly. Arias herself mentioned that she should just be locked away and forgotten and if she were on death row the appeals could drag on for two or three decades, and she still might escape the death penalty. She might have had that calculated from the beginning. There is nothing speedy about these endless appeals--they are a mockery of justice. King Solomon explains what is wrong with long delays:

Ecclesiastes 8:11 (KJV) Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

 

[saturneptune]

If life in prison MEANT no chance of parole - I might go along with it.
In addition - there is always the possibility of escape.

CTB - would you go along with this ideal:
1) Build prisons in the The Aleutian Islands
2) No amenities such as cable TV (radio ok)
3) Limited activities
4) No formal educational programs
5) Two meals a day

(anyone else want to make suggestion)

Salty

I think the concept is interesting, but why not just drop them on an island impossible to escape without any provisions. If they want to live, they will make their own way, and deal with the other prisoners.

 

[saturneptune]

One thing that has not been stated, death penalty laws in this country are based on US and the given state's law. It is not based on what Noah would have done, or what the laws were in ancient Israel.

 

[Dennis324]

If life in prison MEANT no chance of parole - I might go along with it.
In addition - there is always the possibility of escape.

CTB - would you go along with this ideal:
1) Build prisons in the The Aleutian Islands
2) No amenities such as cable TV (radio ok)
3) Limited activities
4) No formal educational programs
5) Two meals a day

(anyone else want to make suggestion)

Salty

Save the money and instead of building prisons in the Aleutians, just put hardened criminals to work. Rather than letting them sit around watching tv and smoking cigarettes, let em bust rocks in Death Valley or drain swamps somewhere. Forget PC. Punish them!

To me that's worse than death.

 

[church mouse guy]

Someone forgot to tell Arias that prison is worse than death so she would not be begging for her life. According to those against the death penalty, she should accept the death penalty as better than life in prison.

 

[Gina B]

Save the money and instead of building prisons in the Aleutians, just put hardened criminals to work. Rather than letting them sit around watching tv and smoking cigarettes, let em bust rocks in Death Valley or drain swamps somewhere. Forget PC. Punish them!

To me that's worse than death.

I think smoking is now banned in all prisons. I don't think you're allowed to have television either in the higher security ones. There are community ones in some, but they are careful with it, it's often an earned privilege, and they'll shut it off in a heartbeat if they even think it might mention something anyone is in there for.

I had to watch some hours upon hours of it for a law and justice deal on changes in the system and new security and health and blah blah blah. I don't remember half of it. I very specifically do remember what some people did to GET a smuggled cigarette and that nobody on earth would do that if they were ALLOWED to have them! Ewwwww

Anyhooo...I think I'd rather be put to death, personally, even if I wasn't guilty, than be in a prison. Shoot, I'd probably kill myself if they even tried to put me in a police car, that stuff freaks me out. Not my thing...I never did understand the criminal mind and how they could put themselves in that position! It's scary, and after seeing what it's like in there, triple that thought.

Now I have seen some women's minimum security stuff and wondered what the point was. Dorm style, they're basically just in a big home living a normal life. Why bother? That and for small crimes, how they have some people come serve their time when it fits their schedule. LOL They'll come when they get vacation time on work, or in the summer, or go to jail every weekend for months on end...how weird is THAT?!

WAY off topic here, but isn't that weird?!

 

[church mouse guy]

Gina, there is nothing wrong with your answer because all of us dread prison--even gangsters do. But death is the last enemy. However, the issue is that man is made in the image of God and so this image of God makes it very serious because we are not just some evolved form of life but we are created to look like God. And people just can't go around attacking human beings who look like God and walk away with a slap on the wrist. They must be punished. Now there is no need to reference Scripture that all murderers go to the lake of fire but there is an earthly, physical punishment required too. And God handed the work of punishing murderers over to man a long time ago. Murderers can repent and be saved but they still owe their fellow man a debt, a punishment that must be paid. Now death has no sting for the Christian because he (or she) goes to be with Jesus. Or as Martin Luther put it, the body they may kill/ God's truth abideth still. And King Solomon says that punishment must be swift so American justice is corrupt because it is so slow and it is not justice but then we are in trouble for many reasons but we cannot escape the fact that even an adulterer murdered in the shower was made in the image of God.

 

[pinoybaptist]

kill her, and put her out of her misery.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Anyhooo...I think I'd rather be put to death, personally, even if I wasn't guilty, than be in a prison.

Back in the 80's I did some work at Cummins prison in Ar., The work was getting the news of Jesus Christ to these men.
Some of the men get heavy in the system and they are some body, they don't want to get out of prison. Many get out and find out they aren't anything special in the free world so the do a crime to get caught and send back to where they are some body.
I never met any who said they would rather be dead than be in the prison( and I'm sure there are a few). Why do they spend so much government money and other's money to appeal their death conviction.

 

[Gina B]

Well, now you've met your first, Bob. I've seen enough to know that would be my choice.

churchmouseguy, you echo my thoughts from earlier in the thread - that earthly punishment for crimes still must happen. I never thought about the "swift" aspect of it, though I agree that our justice system is corrupt beyond belief.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Well, now you've met your first, Bob. I've seen enough to know that would be my choice.

Gina I'll take you at your word, but I was talking about inmates, not free world people talking about death to life locked up.

 

[Dennis324]

I think there probably are some people who ant to stay in prison because they are big fish there. But I tellya, if the prison system worked these folks like they did in the film "Cool Hand Luke", that number would likely drop significantly.

 

[Bob Alkire]

I think there probably are some people who ant to stay in prison because they are big fish there. But I tellya, if the prison system worked these folks like they did in the film "Cool Hand Luke", that number would likely drop significantly.

You could be correct, but I don't believe laws will allow that today. I know even years ago if the temperature was above or below a set degree, they couldn't be worked.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I just watched AEBio. They were running this story on Moses Sithole (pronounce seet-ho-ley). This serial killer murdered 37 women, and one child (didn't say how old the kid was), and raped 40 women.
No death penalty.
So he was sentenced to 2000 plus years in prison in post-apartheid South Africa.
In prison it was discovered he had AIDS, so he got treatment in a prison hospital courtesy of South African taxpayers.
His wife and child were not as lucky.
lol.
They were infected by him, but because they were not prisoners, nor rich, nor serial killers/rapists like Moses Sithole, they will most likely die of the disease.
Crime pays, doesn't it ?

 

[Bob Alkire]

I just watched AEBio. They were running this story on Moses Sithole (pronounce seet-ho-ley). This serial killer murdered 37 women, and one child (didn't say how old the kid was), and raped 40 women.
No death penalty.
So he was sentenced to 2000 plus years in prison in post-apartheid South Africa.
In prison it was discovered he had AIDS, so he got treatment in a prison hospital courtesy of South African taxpayers.
His wife and child were not as lucky.
lol.
They were infected by him, but because they were not prisoners, nor rich, nor serial killers/rapists like Moses Sithole, they will most likely die of the disease.
Crime pays, doesn't it ?

Does make one think!!!