LeBuick said:
This is your view or opinion and not something God specifically says in His Word. You are making assumptions. I agree I also make assumptions when I believe life begins with your first breath. This is my view and I believe the Bible supports it.
Secondly, Adam Clarke agrees with my view regarding the fully formed fetus. Please read his view again. I am not saying he is right but he does appear to see the samethings in this verse as I see.
Also, you are applying a lot of what we know today when you say fetus vs fully developed baby vs inception etc.... Trust me when I say I was speaking in more of a premitive sense of recognition. A woman could have a mis-carriage in the early stages of pregnancy and the man or she for that matter would never know. For one, there was no rabbit or accurate testing for pregnancy. Secondly, the loss of blood would make her unclean and so not something she would not openly talk about. She would probably more write it off to her monthly etc...
Also, men had more than one wife back then so they were not as in tune to their spouse as we are today.
In Bible days a woman was a man's property. Not partner or equal or anything like today. You couldn't offend a woman or a child, the offence had to be against the man. The man bought the woman from her father so they were his properties. This is why the offence was against him.
As I stated before, the biblical significance of this verse has to do with every man wanting to be the father of the Messiah. If the fetus was developed enough to tell it was a female, chances are nothing would happen to the offender... Excuse my bluntness, woman were disposable and not valued back then. A woman and/or child dying during child birth was common.
Lebuik, with all due respect you most of the above speculation, postulation, and assumption.
Unfortunately scripture is 'specific' and it is what I used to describe what God says in His word about the unborn. Can you show me ANY other wording for the 'thing' (?) in the womb that God uses other than 'a child'? I couldn't find anything either

How can it be an 'assumption' when that is exactly what God calls it - bar none. Man in scripture is a living being, woman in scripture is a living being, and so is a child. Do you really want to contend that John (the Baptist) while still in his mothers womb was dead or lifeless when the Holy Spirit filled him? Does the Holy Spirit fill the non-living?
There is nothing in scripture that states life begins with your first breath. That makes no sense LeBuick. Being serious here, how can the child 'draw' it's first breath if it has no life by which to cause the body to 'draw it'? How can that which is not alive move in the womb? God Himself calls the unborn a child, meaning a person, meaning they are alive. Even science proves a unborn is alive before it ever draws it's first breath air after exiting the womb. I'm sorry but there isn't any scripture given that makes such a statement. If you want to use the verse speaking of God making Adam whereby He breathed the breath of life into him, that is not refering to simply air but his spirit, and when it entered his body it THEN became alive. Before that the body that lay there was no more than a empty corpse, unmoving and unable to draw a breath.
Besides the unborn 'does' breathe even in the womb, just not oxygen but oxygen rich amnionic fluid. You were either with child or you were not, there was no in-between.
A woman could have a mis-carriage in the early stages of pregnancy and the man or she for that matter would never know. For one, there was no rabbit or accurate testing for pregnancy.
Where do you get this from? They had ways of knowing just as we do today only different. However, a woman knows when something is different and there are more signs of being pregnant that just a missed minstral cyle. My wife, sisters, cousins all knew when they was pregnant long before they took any tests (appoximately 3 weeks along) and could even tell you when "most likely" it happened and according to their doctors they were always right! But I can tell you this as well, that any woman who wasn't sure if she was pregant and lost it, knew instantly they 'were' but no more.
Secondly, the loss of blood would make her unclean and so not something she would not openly talk about. She would probably more write it off to her monthly etc...
Now that is just silly. First, if they hid it they would be living in sin and causing everyone who came in contact to them to be in sin. Secondly, you are taking a quantum leap by such a assumption as though they didn't care or desire to be god-fearing and righteous in their ways before the Lord. You having absolutly nothing by which to base such an accusational statement other than what you think they might be thinking and maybe what they might possibly have done...
Also, men had more than one wife back then so they were not as in tune to their spouse as we are today.
Again, a quantum assumption. First not all men had multiple wives actaully not many had multiple wives. Fact is, most of them were of those who in prosperity to afford to keep more than one.
In Bible days a woman was a man's property. Not partner or equal or anything like today.
This is abosolutely untrue and biblically they were not nor ever a mans property. Man had authority but a woman was his partner/help-meet. She bought and sold, could have their own business but according to Gods law the man was the one of authority and who God would hold accountable for all things of the family. God never determinded that women were mens property, and the fact that the Jews sought to live by the Law of God would make God to be the one who made of women, mechandise to be bought or sold.
You couldn't offend a woman or a child, the offence had to be against the man. The man bought the woman from her father so they were his properties. This is why the offence was against him.
Where do you get this from?? The offence is ALWAYS against the one involved but all matters had to go through the biblical headship. You can not find in the scripture anywhere that alludes to a woman being a mans proporty because he bought her. He is not buying her but giving the father compensation for taking to himself of such a precious portion of the fathers home and family, and that ONLY by HER express permission and agreement. Also in the same manner she gives to the groom a dowry of great price as well.
As I stated before, the biblical significance of this verse has to do with every man wanting to be the father of the Messiah. If the fetus was developed enough to tell it was a female, chances are nothing would happen to the offender... Excuse my bluntness, woman were disposable and not valued back then. A woman and/or child dying during child birth was common
Again, you couldn't be more wrong. Some men treated their wives in such a way but that was not the norm. It was a pagan practice to treat woman and children in such a way. Remember they were obedient to the Law, and to say woman had no value is to say that God gave them none. On the contrary, however women were to be treated as queens, to not have to work/labor as the man does,. to be taken care of completely, and loved above others. To be his joy and pride so to speak. Prov 31. for example