Limited free Will.

[37818]

A spectrum of views on mankind's free will.
From a vertually a no free will to a type of inbound free will.

Romans 6,:16, Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Charlie24]

A spectrum of views on mankind's free will.
From a vertually a no free will to a type of inbound free will.

Romans 6,:16, Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Clearly this is a choice by man, but many will not see it this way.

The word "servant" is referring to a slave. You choose to whom you will be a slave.

Unto righteousness by grace through faith with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Or unto spiritual death rejecting the call of the Spirit.

There is no middle ground, you are a slave to the righteousness of Christ, or a slave to unrighteousness of Satan.

 

[Van]

Fallen, unregenerate, natural people, made sinners at conception, have the limited spiritual ability to understand spiritual milk, but not spiritual solid food. We know that many of these people seek the narrow door but do not find it. Luke 13:24. And we know that Paul spoke to these "men of flesh" using spiritual milk, rather than spiritual solid food. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.

Both Calvinists and Arminians deny this Biblical doctrine, and advocate the false doctrine of "Total Spiritual Inability." The Calvinists then overcome this claimed inability using the fiction of "irresistible grace." Likewise, the Arminians overcome this claimed inability using the fiction of "prevenient grace."

A review of scripture results in finding many verses that teach that the lost do at times seek God and His promises such as the rich young ruler seeking eternal life.

The false doctrine arises from reading into scripture more than what is said. For example, none seek after God. This does not say none ever seek after God, but that is how those advocating the false doctrine interpret the verse (Romans 3:11). Another expansion to support false doctrine is found at 1 Corinthians 2:14 which says that natural people (non-indwelt, lost people) are unable to understand "the things of the Spirit of God." This does not say natural people cannot understand any of the things of the Spirit of God, but that is how those advocating the false doctrine interpret the verse.

 

[Van]

In Romans 9:16 the inspired Word of God tells us salvation does not depend on the one who wills or runs. Why would God teach us this truth if the lost were unable to will or run to be saved? The false doctrine advocates will say this verse does not mean what it says. When you pile all the verses teaching limited spiritual ability, you create quite a bonfire of nullified scripture.

 

[Charlie24]

Fallen, unregenerate, natural people, made sinners at conception, have the limited spiritual ability to understand spiritual milk, but not spiritual solid food. We know that many of these people seek the narrow door but do not find it. Luke 13:24. And we know that Paul spoke to these "men of flesh" using spiritual milk, rather than spiritual solid food. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.

Both Calvinists and Arminians deny this Biblical doctrine, and advocate the false doctrine of "Total Spiritual Inability." The Calvinists then overcome this claimed inability using the fiction of "irresistible grace." Likewise, the Arminians overcome this claimed inability using the fiction of "prevenient grace."

A review of scripture results in finding many verses that teach that the lost do at times seek God and His promises such as the rich young ruler seeking eternal life.

The false doctrine arises from reading into scripture more than what is said. For example, none seek after God. This does not say none ever seek after God, but that is how those advocating the false doctrine interpret the verse (Romans 3:11). Another expansion to support false doctrine is found at 1 Corinthians 2:14 which says that natural people (non-indwelt, lost people) are unable to understand "the things of the Spirit of God." This does not say natural people cannot understand any of the things of the Spirit of God, but that is how those advocating the false doctrine interpret the verse.

My Bible says that all are dead in trespass and sins, no man calls out for God, none understand.

You must be using another version than the one I use.

 

[JesusFan]

Fallen, unregenerate, natural people, made sinners at conception, have the limited spiritual ability to understand spiritual milk, but not spiritual solid food. We know that many of these people seek the narrow door but do not find it. Luke 13:24. And we know that Paul spoke to these "men of flesh" using spiritual milk, rather than spiritual solid food. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.

Both Calvinists and Arminians deny this Biblical doctrine, and advocate the false doctrine of "Total Spiritual Inability." The Calvinists then overcome this claimed inability using the fiction of "irresistible grace." Likewise, the Arminians overcome this claimed inability using the fiction of "prevenient grace."

A review of scripture results in finding many verses that teach that the lost do at times seek God and His promises such as the rich young ruler seeking eternal life.

The false doctrine arises from reading into scripture more than what is said. For example, none seek after God. This does not say none ever seek after God, but that is how those advocating the false doctrine interpret the verse (Romans 3:11). Another expansion to support false doctrine is found at 1 Corinthians 2:14 which says that natural people (non-indwelt, lost people) are unable to understand "the things of the Spirit of God." This does not say natural people cannot understand any of the things of the Spirit of God, but that is how those advocating the false doctrine interpret the verse.

Van, babes in Christ are the ones that can take spiritual milk, the matured spiritual meat, while lost sinners can partake of neither

 

[Charlie24]

In Romans 9:16 the inspired Word of God tells us salvation does not depend on the one who wills or runs. Why would God teach us this truth if the lost were unable to will or run to be saved? The false doctrine advocates will say this verse does not mean what it says. When you pile all the verses teaching limited spiritual ability, you create quite a bonfire of nullified scripture.

I'm sorry Van, you don't understand what that means!

The one who "wills" is the one who wants to earn his salvation.

The one who "runs" is the one who is working for his salvation.

Paul says, salvation is from the One who shows mercy.

 

[Van]

Just as predicted, posts 5 and 6 say "taint so" but offer nothing to refute the specific verses cited teaching limited spiritual ability of the lost.

Note Luke 13:24 teaches many of those "dead in trespasses and sins" seek the narrow door, so the claim being "spiritually dead" results in total spiritual inability is total fiction.

While agreeing that the one who wills "wants to be saved" still claims they are unable to want to be saved. Cognitive dissonance anyone?

The issue is not who actually saved, which of course is God alone, but that the lost can will to be saved thus seeking God.

 

[Charlie24]

Just as predicted, posts 5 and 6 say "taint so" but offer nothing to refute the specific verses cited teaching limited spiritual ability of the lost.

Note Luke 13:24 teaches many of those "dead in trespasses and sins" seek the narrow door, so the claim being "spiritually dead" results in total spiritual inability is total fiction.

While agreeing that the one who wills "wants to be saved" still claims they are unable to want to be saved. Cognitive dissonance anyone?

The issue is not who actually saved, which of course is God alone, but that the lost can will to be saved thus seeking God.

Have a nice day, Van!

 

[Van]

What would make my day is for an advocate of false doctrine to see the light, overcome the inhibition of pride and acknowledge that lost people have the limited spiritual ability to seek God some of the time and to will to be saved according to the gospel of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:18 NASB
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.​

Many times the false doctrine advocates will cite the above verse and falsely claim that those lost are unable to grasp the truth of the gospel.
But is that actually what the verse says? Nope. Are they "perishing" because God has closed the door? Nope. They are acting upon themselves, closing their minds to the truth, rather than being blinded to the truth because of their lost state. Similarly, are those being saved, acting on themselves? Nope. God alone is acting on them.

But why not accept the implication of this verse? Because the fields are white for harvest, thus many of the lost are able to set their minds of the spiritual milk of the gospel and grasp the opportunity to plead for salvation. To fully commit to Christ as both Savior and Lord. Recall that many will seek the narrow door.

Conclusion, from study, is that those "perishing" are able to alter their mindset, to realize their sinful state and their need for a savior. Always remember this, the Word of God will not be made to no effect.

 

[Charlie24]

What would make my day is for an advocate of false doctrine to see the light, overcome the inhibition of pride and acknowledge that lost people have the limited spiritual ability to seek God some of the time and to will to be saved according to the gospel of Christ.

​

1 Corinthians 1:18 NASB​

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.​

Many times the false doctrine advocates will cite the above verse and falsely claim that those lost are unable to grasp the truth of the gospel.
But is that actually what the verse says? Nope. Are they "perishing" because God has closed the door? Nope. They are acting upon themselves, closing their minds to the truth, rather than being blinded to the truth because of their lost state. Similarly, are those being saved, acting on themselves? Nope. God alone is acting on them.

But why not accept the implication of this verse? Because the fields are white for harvest, thus many of the lost are able to set their minds of the spiritual milk of the gospel and grasp the opportunity to plead for salvation. To fully commit to Christ as both Savior and Lord. Recall that many will seek the narrow door.

Conclusion, from study, is that those "perishing" are able to alter their mindset, to realize their sinful state and their need for a savior. Always remember this, the Word of God will not be made to no effect.

Being dead in trespass and sins doesn't mean they can't hear and decide for their own.

It means they can do nothing to understand their need for a Savior without the Holy Spirit penetrating the soul and spirit to show them through the hearing of the Gospel.

What they are hearing is nonsense until the Holy Spirit makes it real inside them.

 

[atpollard]

We know that many of these people seek the narrow door but do not find it. Luke 13:24.

If I may suggest a Biblical example of "many" seeking but not finding ...

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. - Romans 1:18-23 [ESV]

To paraphrase the Country Western song ... "Looking for God in all the Wrong Places."
Why should finding the narrow door be so hard, you ask? Jesus explained it ...

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. - John 3:19-20 [ESV]

... Something about a "Leopard and his spots" - Jeremiah 13:23; Ephesians 2:1-3

 

[37818]

. . . or a slave to unrighteousness of Satan.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4, . . . But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[Van]

Being dead in trespass and sins doesn't mean they can't hear and decide for their own.

It means they can do nothing to understand their need for a Savior without the Holy Spirit penetrating the soul and spirit to show them through the hearing of the Gospel.

What they are hearing is nonsense until the Holy Spirit makes it real inside them.

Simply repeating false claims does not move the ball. Spiritually dead people, many of them seek the narrow door, that means they did understand their need for a Savior.

 

[Van]

If I may suggest a Biblical example of "many" seeking but not finding ...

To paraphrase the Country Western song ... "Looking for God in all the Wrong Places."
Why should finding the narrow door be so hard, you ask? Jesus explained it ...

... Something about a "Leopard and his spots" - Jeremiah 13:23; Ephesians 2:1-3

Calvinism says the lost do not seek God, but scripture says many seek the narrow door but do not find. So the Calvinists dutifully claim seeking requires finding, if you do not find, you did not seek. Nonsense. Luke 13:24 uses both words, they were seeking but did not find. The Calvinists rewrite the verse this way, the many were really not seeking the narrow door because they did not find it. The Exact Opposite of what it says.

Always remember this, the Word of God will not be made to no effect.

 

[Charlie24]

Simply repeating false claims does not move the ball. Spiritually dead people, many of them seek the narrow door, that means they did understand their need for a Savior.

If you call plain Scripture "false claims, then who can have a rational conversation with you, Van?

Did not Isaiah and Paul say what I have I told you?

 

[Van]

Fallen, unregenerate, natural people, made sinners at conception, have the limited spiritual ability to understand spiritual milk, but not spiritual solid food. We know that many of these people seek the narrow door but do not find it. Luke 13:24. And we know that Paul spoke to these "men of flesh" using spiritual milk, rather than spiritual solid food. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.

Both Calvinists and Arminians deny this Biblical doctrine, and advocate the false doctrine of "Total Spiritual Inability." The Calvinists then overcome this claimed inability using the fiction of "irresistible grace." Likewise, the Arminians overcome this claimed inability using the fiction of "prevenient grace."

A review of scripture results in finding many verses that teach that the lost do at times seek God and His promises such as the rich young ruler seeking eternal life.

The false doctrine arises from reading into scripture more than what is said. For example, none seek after God. This does not say none ever seek after God, but that is how those advocating the false doctrine interpret the verse (Romans 3:11). Another expansion to support false doctrine is found at 1 Corinthians 2:14 which says that natural people (non-indwelt, lost people) are unable to understand "the things of the Spirit of God." This does not say natural people cannot understand any of the things of the Spirit of God, but that is how those advocating the false doctrine interpret the verse.

 

[Van]

If you call plain Scripture "false claims, then who can have a rational conversation with you, Van?

Did not Isaiah and Paul say what I have I told you?

Once again we see a post addressing my supposed faults, while running from any discussion of the issue, the Limited Spiritual Ability of the lost, non-indwelt, natural people.

Paul did not say at either 1 Corinthians 2:14 or Romans 3:11 what Calvinism claims as I have shown. In both cases, Calvinism reads into the text an unwarranted expansion disregarding the context. "The things" does not say "all the things" and "none seek after God"does not says "none ever seek after God."

 

[Charlie24]

Fallen, unregenerate, natural people, made sinners at conception, have the limited spiritual ability to understand spiritual milk, but not spiritual solid food. We know that many of these people seek the narrow door but do not find it. Luke 13:24. And we know that Paul spoke to these "men of flesh" using spiritual milk, rather than spiritual solid food. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.

Both Calvinists and Arminians deny this Biblical doctrine, and advocate the false doctrine of "Total Spiritual Inability." The Calvinists then overcome this claimed inability using the fiction of "irresistible grace." Likewise, the Arminians overcome this claimed inability using the fiction of "prevenient grace."

A review of scripture results in finding many verses that teach that the lost do at times seek God and His promises such as the rich young ruler seeking eternal life.

The false doctrine arises from reading into scripture more than what is said. For example, none seek after God. This does not say none ever seek after God, but that is how those advocating the false doctrine interpret the verse (Romans 3:11). Another expansion to support false doctrine is found at 1 Corinthians 2:14 which says that natural people (non-indwelt, lost people) are unable to understand "the things of the Spirit of God." This does not say natural people cannot understand any of the things of the Spirit of God, but that is how those advocating the false doctrine interpret the verse.

That is not what Isaiah and Paul said, you are not being rational, you are denying the Scripture and rewriting it.

 

[Van]

That is not what Isaiah and Paul said, you are not being rational, you are denying the Scripture and rewriting it.

Calvinism's defense relies on name calling because it is false doctrine. See post 17.