Limited Spiritual Ability of the Fallen

[atpollard]

Here we have the hogwash that God revealing Himself constitutes the "gift of faith."

You may claim "taint so" until the Lord returns, but the word of God says what it says.

Ephesians 2:8-9 says salvation is the gift of God and is not at issue.

The Greek grammar will not support that conclusion. "saved" (σεσῳσμένοι) is presented as a "masculine" verb and "gift" (δῶρον) is presented as a "neuter" noun. "Saved" cannot be the "gift".

Since salvation is the gift received through or on the basis of faith, the passage provides absolutely no support for total spiritual inability.

Since "salvation" cannot be the "gift", the rest of the conclusion falls apart like a house of cards. Furthermore, "and that not of yourselves" makes it clear that people are not saved because of their faith that is "of themselves", shattering your myth of "spiritual ability".

 

[Van]

That would be Romans 3 that makes that claim and not "my" Doctrine. My "totally bogus doctrine of grace" states that men cannot understand or believe without first receiving the gift of faith from God. See Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2 for more details.

More deflection, Romans 3:11 does not say no one ever seeks God, but the bobus doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability does make that false claim.

 

[Van]

They are NOT saving truths, knowing God exists does not give you a relationship to Him!

LOL, now Y1 is addressing non-existent arguments. Being able to discern God's attributes from what He has made does demonstrate some spiritual ability.

 

[Van]

... and once the scripture was explained the Pharisees remained confused like all those that "do not believe BECAUSE you are not [Jesus'] sheep" (whom the Father had given to Him). Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 9:15-16 explain what makes the difference.

On and on, they sidestep the issue. The people that were entering the kingdom in Matthew 23:13 were not the Pharisees!!!!

And pay no attention to these claims non-germane verses present total spiritual inability. They do not!!!

 

[Van]

No, as natural man cannot receive spiritual truths!

They just repeat fiction but remember Paul spoke using spiritual milk as to men of flesh. So they seek to change the topic.

 

[Van]

I disagree.


It was not ignored. Hindus are all seeking God, but not finding Him. Many people seek God. SNIP

This from those that claim no one ever seeks after God. Game, set and match, many people have sufficient spiritual ability to seek after God.

 

[Van]

So you disagree with isaiah, paul, and God on this?

Y1 disagrees with scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. Your cohort just admitted many people seek God.

 

[Van]

You really should get an English teacher to help you diagram the sentence in 1 Corinthians 3:1 so you can understand what it is actually saying.

Paul had to talk to saved people like he spoke to unsaved people. That does not negate the statement that "natural men" do not understand "spiritual truths", nor does it change the fact that they hold the little that they do understand to be "foolishness". Nor does it negate Romans 3 and God's condemnation of the human heart without Him.

Again and again this poster addresses me to avoid addressing the topic.

And note, the rewriting of "the things of the Spirit of God" into "spiritual truths." Where do we find this corruption, why the good old NLT and ESV. See how the Calvinist bias is slipped into the text to push bogus doctrine?

Why did Paul speak to new immature Christians as to men of flesh? Because the new Christians had not matured to the point they could handle spiritual solid food. However both men of flesh and immature Christians can handle spiritual milk.

 

[Van]

Not I nor anyone except God can, if that, to get you to hear.

Assertions without biblical support do not move the ball. Scripture is full of examples of people seeking God.

 

[Van]

You may claim "taint so" until the Lord returns, but the word of God says what it says.


The Greek grammar will not support that conclusion. "saved" (σεσῳσμένοι) is presented as a "masculine" verb and "gift" (δῶρον) is presented as a "neuter" noun. "Saved" cannot be the "gift".


Since "salvation" cannot be the "gift", the rest of the conclusion falls apart like a house of cards. Furthermore, "and that not of yourselves" makes it clear that people are not saved because of their faith that is "of themselves", shattering your myth of "spiritual ability".

This is the second time you have pretended to be unable to grasp the difference between "saved" and salvation. This is all they have folks, ignore, deflect and pretend personal incredulity. The concept of salvation is presented by the text, but the word does not appear so all this grammar is willful deflection.

 

[Van]

Lets look at another verse:
Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Now according to some, this is what this verse really means (LOL):
So faith comes not from hearing but by being instilled as a gift via irresistible grace, and no one before being enabled can even hear let alone understand the word of Christ.

Folks, faith comes from hearing God's word, the gospel of Christ.

 

[Van]

1 Corinthians 3:1.
And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

Paul spoke using spiritual milk as to men of flesh proving once again, and for the umpteenth time men of flesh can understand spiritual milk.

Verse after verse tells us of folks seeking God, some through works but others through faith, such as Matthew 6:33, Luke 13:24, Acts of the Apostles 17:27, Hebrews 11:6, and of course Matthew 23:13.

 

[Van]

1Ch 16:10 Glory in His holy name;
Let the heart of those who seek the LORD be glad.

2Ch 15:12
They entered into the covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and soul;

Many verses indicate the fallen should seek the Lord, and many others indicate people do seek the Lord.

Limited Spiritual Ability is taught from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[Van]

Act of the Apostles 13:7
who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence. This man summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God.

 

[Yeshua1]

Act of the Apostles 13:7
who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence. This man summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God.

Yes, as God was leading and guiding him to hear and receive the gospel there!

 

[Van]

Yes, as God was leading and guiding him to hear and receive the gospel there!

LOL, if scripture teaches a person is seeking after God, the deniers claim they had been enabled. But, as always, it is an argument from silence, the old do not believe what it says, because of what is claimed about what is not said. I kid you not...

 

[Van]

Consider the argument concerning all those verses where the fallen are commanded to seek God. God does this, the deniers say, even though He knows they are unable to seek God. This is the sort of tommyrot undergirding the false doctrine of total spiritual inability.

 

[37818]

Assertions without biblical support do not move the ball. Scripture is full of examples of people seeking God.

Give me one such examle void of God's word to them, such as a prophet, Apostle, the gospel.

 

[Yeshua1]

Give me one such examle void of God's word to them, such as a prophet, Apostle, the gospel.

The Pattern is as Jesus told us, as he sought the Apostles out, they did not seek him...

 

[Van]

Give me one such examle void of God's word to them, such as a prophet, Apostle, the gospel.

The issue is not seeking God without first experiencing God's revelation to people. The issue is the bogus claim no one ever seeks after God. That bogus claim is obviously false. Scripture has dozens of examples of people seeking God, some through works, and some through faith.

Romans 1:19 says the fallen are without excuse, thus they have sufficient spiritual ability to discern attributes of God from what He has made.

I have provided more than a dozen separate verses teaching people seek God. And many more can be cited.

What makes Matthew 23:13 so informative, is the bogus claim they had been enabled by irresistible grace, does not work because although they were in the process of entering, they were prevented from going into the Kingdom, thus not compelled by irresistible grace.

I do not recall you saying fallen people do or do not have limited spiritual ability.