Looking for recommendations

[Martin]

Also, I guess I do have another question for Martin. In another thread you said you got your MAR degree from them via online. Were you able to roll this into a traditional MDiv at the Liberty or elsewhere?

==I could have if I wanted to, yes. However I would not want to have done a MDiv online at Liberty since the languages would not have been included. I did a year of Greek, and some New Testament courses, at Southeastern Seminary in Raleigh before transfering to Liberty's dlp program (for personal reasons...job, etc). I don't know if SEBTS or SBTS would accept the MAR and roll it over into the MDiv the way Liberty would. I would have been able to enter their MDiv program(s) with advanced standing. However I chose not to do that. Instead I have gone to a state University to earn my degrees in history and ancient history. I was accepted into Liberty's MA/RS in Church History program (on campus program). However, after much prayer and consideration, I came to the conclusion that I needed a broader program than just church history. Thus the state University choice. It was a very hard decision, that took almost a year to make, because I always sort of viewed myself as teaching New Testament and Church History in a seminary, but I guess God had different plans. Now I will be teaching ancient history and focusing my academic/personal study and research on New Testament historical background. In the process of reading, studying, and praying about my next step I think I read every catalog from every major seminary in the country trying to make the right choice. So I know what a difficult choice this can be.

I see your seeking to still go ahead and get a PhD from your blog (most helpful btw). Where are you at in that cycle? How long did it take to finish the MAR?

==It took me about three years to finish the MAR. Currently I am working on my second Masters degree.

Any of your comments would be appreciated. Since I missed the boat on getting into a seminary this fall (just can't decide), as I had intended, I was thinking of hopping on to there online MAR degree, and go from there to finish at Liberty or elsewhere if needbe. At some point, obviously I would need to get an MDiv and some language training - something that's missing from Liberty's program.

==Yes that is a major minus in Liberty's program. Southern Evangelical Seminary is planning on putting their language courses online in the next year or so. They do have a MDiv with a Biblical Studies focus (online). However SES is TRACS (nationally) accredited and are not regionally accredited. That is not a bad thing, or a problem, but by going there you "could" limit the ThM or PhD programs you would be able to enter. I am a firm believer in distance learning and TRACS accreditation. However there are still some schools out there that don't accept TRACS (even though they are a recongized accrediting agency according to the US Dept. of Education and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation).

 

[Martin]

Make certain that you start teaching as soon as you can.

I second that! :thumbs:

 

[iknowsomething]

Are you really going to teach? And I mean really? Are you really going to teach at a seminary?

Yes, I really do want to. Why?

Make certain that you start teaching as soon as you can - and please do not become a snob . . .

For that exact reason. Their are way too many professors who are "snobs", full of themselves, prideful (and let's admit it, it's easy to be so, in such a position). In order to help you understand my motivation, I'll attach something I wrote recently explaining some of my thoughts on the issue. Hope this helps. Again, you guys have been wonderful.

To quote myself;

I'm interested in teaching at a seminary, or perhaps an associate pastorship. I just don't see myself as the head pastor of the church. I realize that being such would demand more than a theological bent or whim, but a love for God's people that is almost mind boggling. So, who knows where God may lead. I'd like to be a professor in order to have a platform to expound the truth upon. Too many "evangelicals" are becoming more and more lax in their faith. The same "dumbing down" which seems to have crept into our culture has extended to the church as well. People simply don't know what the bible says, including some mainstream leaders! It's not too hard to see the possibility of ecumenism bringing about an apostate church that would find support and growth from the culture, and would still exist after the true church has been taken away. Evangelism in todays culture is hard, because many people already know about Christ, God, heaven and the like in the US. They've already got preconceived notions, usually from a false foundation or misunderstanding of what the bible says. Apostate churches fuel these ideas. I can't blame them for not wanting to be a Christian on what they think it means - it's subverted truth.

 

[El_Guero]

Because for any given new class, there are at least 20 to 30 that say they will be a professor, but only a couple of PhD's graduate - the wash out rate is incredibly high. Don't know why so many go to be a professor and then quit.

Yes, I really do want to. Why?

For that exact reason. Their are way too many professors who are "snobs", full of themselves, prideful (and let's admit it, it's easy to be so, in such a position). In order to help you understand my motivation, I'll attach something I wrote recently explaining some of my thoughts on the issue. Hope this helps. Again, you guys have been wonderful.

To quote myself;

 

[Rhetorician]

FWIW (for what it's worth)!

To all who seek wisdom through learning:

I would like to see more of a response than just mine to this opinion.

It would be wise to re-consider if one wanted to get a PhD or other doctorate in order to teach or not. There is a real glut of PhDs out there in all of the theological disciplines. You may get all of those years of education and NOT BE ABLE TO FIND A TEACHING POSITION. You can hardly throw a rock w/out hitting an unemployed PhD person who would love to have the most menial position teaching at a small obscure college some where.

May I make a few of suggestions:

First, make sure that you are called and "have a word from God" to that ministry position. We can discuss what the call sounds like on another thread.

Second, you must do something (hopefully many things) to set yourself apart from the crowd. That will give you and edge when you go to be hired. It may be the one w/whom you have studied. It may be the particular subject matter you have studied. It may be where you have studied. For an "SBC hand," it might be that you have done your PhD or ThD at Harvard. Those type things never hurt.

Third; write, write, write, write! Write soon. Write early in your academic career! Write much! When all other things are seemingly equal the person with a long CV of written materials may be the one who gets the job. The writing could just tip the scale for the person who is the final one who does the hiring. Start with book reviews. Go to the ETS conferences or SBL or whatever your particular discipline might be.

Please make sure that you know this is what God has called you to do. You could come to the end of a long road and be terribly disappointed.

I don't mean to sound spiritual, but I have of course said all this with the will of a sovereign God as my primary assumption.

PM or email me if anyone wants to talk further about these issues. I do have some personal experience and expertise in the area.

Stay by the stuff!:thumbs:

sdg!

rd

 

[El_Guero]

Rhet

Not the 'H' School! Yuck! Harvard! Now I gotta go worsh out my mouth.

:saint:

Ya' coulda said a good liberal school.

 

[iknowsomething]

To all who seek wisdom through learning:
Third; write, write, write, write! Write soon. Write early in your academic career! Write much! When all other things are seemingly equal the person with a long CV of written materials may be the one who gets the job. The writing could just tip the scale for the person who is the final one who does the hiring. Start with book reviews. Go to the ETS conferences or SBL or whatever your particular discipline might be.

First of all thanks for this, your wisdom and experience is appreciated. Reminds me of proverbs 1

Wisdom calls out in the street,
she shouts loudly in the plazas;
at the head of the noisy streets she calls,
in the entrances of the gates in the city she utters her words

I seek such advice, and harken to it, as should anyone who desires wisdom. At any rate, how do yo go about getting published? That's a loaded quesiton I'm sure, but I've written a few pieces, never published or attempted to publish them. In my schooling, I'm sure I'll want/have to write more, and on deeper levels as well. I'm not going to be published in the Princeton Review anytime soon, so what journals could I start in? Who would publish a lay theologian? What topic to write upon, is of course, an entirely separate topic, hehe.

Not getting a job after that much hardship is both eyeopening and a little disheartening. I'm guessing the same rules of finding work applies; who do you know, and more importantly, what do they know and think of you.

 

[iknowsomething]

We can discuss what the call sounds like on another thread.

I'm a little hesitant.. If you know of Gary Friesen's book, I think you'll know why. But nevertheless, your right, a new thread would be in order for such a topic. Feel free to start if you'd like. I'm personally more interested in yours and others direct experiences in doing what I've set forth for myself.

 

[Martin]

make sure that you are called and "have a word from God" to that ministry position. We can discuss what the call sounds like on another thread.

==Very important point. If someone is not "called" to be a pastor, they should not be a pastor. If someone is not called to be a nurse, they should not be a nurse. If someone is not called to be a school teacher, they should not be a school teacher. And if someone is not called to be a seminary professor, they should not be a seminary professor. Don't try to become a seminary professor simply because you want to or because you want to teach. There are other subjects out there, not just theology. If you want to teach the most important subject in the world, theology, make sure you are called of God to do so.

I believe that many people are miserable in their lives because they have missed God's calling. They think that God only calls missionaries or pastors, but this is not so. God created each individual person with a purpose in mind and once a person is saved God can work through that person to achieve His purposes. We should all seek to do what God has called us to do.

A very good way not to be able to find a job is get out of God's will.

 

[El_Guero]

Well on the possitive side, the average PhD graduate that cannot teach gets more in ministry than a professor!

But, on the negative side, that has gotta hurt after all that time and energy.

Wayne

To all who seek wisdom through learning:

I would like to see more of a response than just mine to this opinion.

It would be wise to re-consider if one wanted to get a PhD or other doctorate in order to teach or not. There is a real glut of PhDs out there in all of the theological disciplines. You may get all of those years of education and NOT BE ABLE TO FIND A TEACHING POSITION. You can hardly throw a rock w/out hitting an unemployed PhD person who would love to have the most menial position teaching at a small obscure college some where.

May I make a few of suggestions:

First, make sure that you are called and "have a word from God" to that ministry position. We can discuss what the call sounds like on another thread.

Second, you must do something (hopefully many things) to set yourself apart from the crowd. That will give you and edge when you go to be hired. It may be the one w/whom you have studied. It may be the particular subject matter you have studied. It may be where you have studied. For an "SBC hand," it might be that you have done your PhD or ThD at Harvard. Those type things never hurt.

Third; write, write, write, write! Write soon. Write early in your academic career! Write much! When all other things are seemingly equal the person with a long CV of written materials may be the one who gets the job. The writing could just tip the scale for the person who is the final one who does the hiring. Start with book reviews. Go to the ETS conferences or SBL or whatever your particular discipline might be.

Please make sure that you know this is what God has called you to do. You could come to the end of a long road and be terribly disappointed.

I don't mean to sound spiritual, but I have of course said all this with the will of a sovereign God as my primary assumption.

PM or email me if anyone wants to talk further about these issues. I do have some personal experience and expertise in the area.

Stay by the stuff!:thumbs:

sdg!

rd