Looking for some help on Deut 5:9

[thegospelgeek]

(Deu 5:9) You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

(Deu 24:16) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

OK, I need some help here. What is God saying? Is there a contradiction? God's word doesn't contradict itself, so what is the explanation?

The best I can see is that God forbids man to punish the children or fathers for the others sin, but he is able to do so because of his Holiness and knowledge. He knows the hearts of man, where man does not.

Also, when he talks about "visiting" the sins from one generation to the next, does this speak of the parenting influence and responsibility thast we have. For exmple, If I beat my wife studies show that there is a good probability that my children will do so. Or am I reading to much into it.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

OK, I need some help here. What is God saying? Is there a contradiction? God's word doesn't contradict itself, so what is the explanation?

The best I can see is that God forbids man to punish the children or fathers for the others sin, but he is able to do so because of his Holiness and knowledge. He knows the hearts of man, where man does not.

Also, when he talks about "visiting" the sins from one generation to the next, does this speak of the parenting influence and responsibility thast we have. For exmple, If I beat my wife studies show that there is a good probability that my children will do so. Or am I reading to much into it.

Maybe the second verse is limited to capital punishments? or maybe it fallows the same vein as distinction in James between which sins cause death. Though certainly the decendents of Eli paid for their father's sins by early death. I'm not speaking of his two sons because they paid the price for their own sin. But his desendents mentioned here:

30 "Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: 'I promised that your house and your father's house would minister before me forever.' But now the LORD declares: 'Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained. 31 The time is coming when I will cut short your strength and the strength of your father's house, so that there will not be an old man in your family line 32 and you will see distress in my dwelling. Although good will be done to Israel, in your family line there will never be an old man. 33 Every one of you that I do not cut off from my altar will be spared only to blind your eyes with tears and to grieve your heart, and all your descendants will die in the prime of life.

Maybe it has something to do with what Eli says here:

22 Now Eli, who was very old, heard about everything his sons were doing to all Israel and how they slept with the women who served at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 23 So he said to them, "Why do you do such things? I hear from all the people about these wicked deeds of yours. 24 No, my sons; it is not a good report that I hear spreading among the LORD's people. 25 If a man sins against another man, God [e] may mediate for him; but if a man sins against the LORD, who will intercede for him?" His sons, however, did not listen to their father's rebuke, for it was the LORD's will to put them to death.

 

[Amy.G]

I think the key words are "of them that hate Me".

The next verse says:

De*5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.


There are two groups of people. Those that hate God and those that love Him. God punishes those that hate Him and shows mercy to those that love Him.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[thegospelgeek]

But what principal distinguishes the 2? Is it the capital punishment or the judge? Or Both?

Is it that a death sentence can't be passed onto generations because of one man's sin? Or is it that God can judge the generations but man can not?

I tend to go with the latter since God pronounced judgement on the family of Aichen(sp) when his sin caused the Israelites to lose the battle at Ai.

 

[Deacon]

1. Read the verses in context.

2. The context of Deuteronomy 5:9 is the whole chapter
(also read Deut. 7:7:1-11)
Who is speaking?
Who is he speaking for?
Highlight the - "you" 's in the text
Who is the warning directed at? (a specific or a general audience)
What are the consequences of disobedience?

3. Read the context of Deuteronomy 24:16 (actually starts many chapters earlier)(Deut. 24:6-22)
Who are the commands directed at (specific cases or a general audience)?

Does an iniquity, transgression or sin effect other people?

Rob

 

[Aaron]

How about consulting a time-honored, universally recognized commentary?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Deuteronomy 5:9 = natural consequences

Deuteronomy 24:16 = direct punishments

 

[HankD]

Deu 5:9 You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

Deu 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Deuteronomy 5 speaks of "visiting" the iniquity of the fathers on the children. The effects of the sins of the fathers reaches to the third and fourth generation.

Deuteronmy 24 speaks of the death penalty and that it cannot be imposed upon a murderers (for instance) children. The death penalty is imposed upon the guilty individual but the effects of the father's sin could reach to the 3rd and 4th generation of the murderer's children.


HankD

 

[Pilgrimer]

I agree with "natural consequences" and "direct punishment."

An alcoholic father leaves lasting scars on his children which in turn affects their children etc . . .

But when we all stand before Christ, not one of those children or grandchildren will perish because of their father's drunkenness.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Aaron]

Deuteronomy 5:9 = natural consequences

Deuteronomy 24:16 = direct punishments

Good. I would say it this way:

Deuteronomy 5:9 = God's judgment

Deuteronomy 24:16 = Penalties handed down by the civil government.

 

[Marcia]

Also, when he talks about "visiting" the sins from one generation to the next, does this speak of the parenting influence and responsibility thast we have. For exmple, If I beat my wife studies show that there is a good probability that my children will do so. Or am I reading to much into it.

I hear a lot of people apply it this way, but I disagree. I think that is reading a modern situation into the text. The context is worship of false gods. Fathers who worship false gods will spread this to their children.

 

[John Toppass]

OK, I need some help here. What is God saying? Is there a contradiction? God's word doesn't contradict itself, so what is the explanation?

The best I can see is that God forbids man to punish the children or fathers for the others sin, but he is able to do so because of his Holiness and knowledge. He knows the hearts of man, where man does not.

Yes

Also, when he talks about "visiting" the sins from one generation to the next, does this speak of the parenting influence and responsibility thast we have. For exmple, If I beat my wife studies show that there is a good probability that my children will do so. Or am I reading to much into it.

Good example. The Word of God applies to us ever so much today as it did in man's history. With some differences in how it is applied under the New Covenant that was made when Jesus Christ died on the cross.

I think verse 10 also is important in qualifying verse 9.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Thanks for the input.