Lord’s Prayer Updated

[John of Japan]

As long as you pray as if God had not answered yet or His will has not been done yet, you will never ever get anything from God. What you want from God will always remain in future forever, never to be attained.

Then God said, “Let there be light…. - Genesis 1:3

God did not say, there will be light. He said, let there be light now. God, spoke, confessed or prayed what He wanted to happen now & not in the future.
And there are more examples, of God saying, let there be this and let there be that in the book of Genesis. He did not say there will be?

…for I have made you a father of many nations.. - Genesis 17:5

God told Abraham, that he was the father of many nations, when Abraham was 100 years old, childless and his wife was barren. God did not say, He will make Abraham a father of many nations in future.? God said I am making you a father of many nations now. And you know what happened later, after God spoke what He wanted.

I have given you this land…. - Deuteronomy 1:8

God told the Israelites, that He had given them land, before they possessed it or saw it, and the land was occupied by other people? God did not say, He will give them the land, but He said I have given… Eventually the saw the land & possessed it

The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want…. - Psalm 23:1-6

Psalm 23 is a famous prayer by King David. Notice that King David, did not say, the Lord will be my shepherd? And David did not ask God to be His shepherd,?

He makes me to lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside the still waters - Psalm 23:2

Notice that David did not say, he will make me to lie down in the future? And David did not ask God to put him in green pastures? And David did not ask God to lead him beside still waters, but simply declared that God did that for him?
I could go on and on about Psalm 23, but you get the point.

Then God said, Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness… - Genesis 1:26

God created humans to be like Him and to operate like Him, on a lower level. Humans are not God and can never be God, but humans were made to be like God.

Therefore be imitators of God as dear children - Ephesians 5:1

If you are going to imitate someone, you will act like them in some way, but not exactly. We can never fully act like God, but we can act like him, in a small way.
So, if God declares or speaks, what He wants before it happens, there is nothing wrong, if we too do the same on a lower level.
There are many more examples in the Bible of people praying or speaking, what they wanted from God, rather than asking or begging.
Amen!

And you have completely evaded the issue, and not answered a single one of my points about your version of the "Lord's Prayer."

Why do you lecture me about the verb tenses in all of those passages, and say nothing about the passage in question? I wrote about the aorist imperatives (requests to God) in the "Lord's Prayer". The NT Greek word for prayer is aiteo (αἰτέω), which means to ask. John R. Rice does a great job with this in his famous book, Prayer: Asking and Receiving.

 

[Ascetic X]

And you have completely evaded the issue, and not answered a single one of my points about your version of the "Lord's Prayer."

Why do you lecture me about the verb tenses in all of those passages, and say nothing about the passage in question? I wrote about the aorist imperatives (requests to God) in the "Lord's Prayer". The NT Greek word for prayer is aiteo (αἰτέω), which means to ask. John R. Rice does a great job with this in his famous book, Prayer: Asking and Receiving.

So now we know how much of a “Bible scholar” this BibleVendor is.

His only interest is soliciting, selling his questionable religious products which change scriptures.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

As long as you pray as if God had not answered yet or His will has not been done yet, you will never ever get anything from God. What you want from God will always remain in future forever, never to be attained.

James 4:2. 'Yet you do not have because you do not ask God.' Most certainly we are to ask with faith (Mark 11:24 etc.), but pretending that we have already received something we haven't is simply nonsense, or worse yet, the Word Faith fallacy.

 

[BibleVendor]

And you have completely evaded the issue, and not answered a single one of my points about your version of the "Lord's Prayer."

Why do you lecture me about the verb tenses in all of those passages, and say nothing about the passage in question? I wrote about the aorist imperatives (requests to God) in the "Lord's Prayer". The NT Greek word for prayer is aiteo (αἰτέω), which means to ask. John R. Rice does a great job with this in his famous book, Prayer: Asking and Receiving.

Twenty -four hours ago, I posted my response to you, but for some mysterious reason, the moderators have not published it. Anyway, I will re-write and re-post my response. Hopefully, the powers that be will publish it. So, be patient and stay tuned. And this goes for everyone interested in this thread. It’s been a busy day. Thanks.

 

[BibleVendor]

James 4:2. 'Yet you do not have because you do not ask God.' Most certainly we are to ask with faith (Mark 11:24 etc.), but pretending that we have already received something we haven't is simply nonsense, or worse yet, the Word Faith fallacy.

True, there are situations, where you can ask God, but there are many things that God has clearly spoken, that He will do for those who believe in Him, therefore you cannot ask God to do wha He already has said He will do.
Why ask anyone to do what , they have already committed to do? Instead I believe you are better off thanking God for doing what He promised or confessing or acknowledging it daily that it has happened or is happening, even though, you haven’t experienced it yet, I will elaborate more, in my response to others. So, be patient and stay tuned. Thanks.

 

[BibleVendor]

Now you're making more sense. If you are talking about Tyndale's translation, it is true that no one today makes it their primary Bible version. However, the KJV is still the primary version read by 100's of thousands all over the world. It is still being read in many countries in Africa, Papua New Guinea, etc. It's still pretty easy to understand.

I would like you to address my objections in Post 8 to the "Lord's Prayer" version you posted. It seems to me to be a pretty egregious "update."

Through out the Bible, God had clearly spoken, what He will do for those who believe in Him. Now, the question is, should we keep asking God to do what He has already promised to do for us. Or should we thank Him every day for doing what He promised, even though it hasn’t happened yet? Should we acknowledge, confess or celebrate what God promised, even though II is not happening yet or has not happened yet?
Imagine a father, who promises to do certain things for his children, because they are his children. Should the children keep asking the father every day, to do what the father already promised to do? Or should the children thank the father for his promise and talk of it as if , it is done already because father said so?
Surely, there are occasions, when we can ask God, but only for those things that He never clearly spoke to give us. Within the next 24 hours, I will give a clear understanding based on scripture, as to how and why I updated the Lord’s Prayer.
It’s been a long day.Need to get some sleep. Stay tuned. Thanks.

 

[BibleVendor]

…….


And John of Japan has demonstrated to you through sound biblical analysts how your rendering fundamentally changes the core message of the prayer.

Please accept it

Peace to you

Stay tuned. Check my responses to others.

 

[BibleVendor]

Whoa, I never claimed to be a scholar, and I am not, though I have areas of expertise. That was you in your introduction, where you claimed to be a Bible scholar. I am just a professor (of Bible and ancient languages) and Bible translator. My son is a genuine Bible scholar, with a PhD and several scholarly books published, and many articles in theological journals. I think I know what a scholar is. So, why do you consider yourself to be a Bible scholar?

Correct. I consider myself to be a Bible scholar and proud of it, however I never make a biblical point without citing scripture to back it up.

 

[Ben1445]

Correct. I consider myself to be a Bible scholar and proud of it, however I never make a biblical point without citing scripture to back it up.

A self proclaimed scholar? I think that is what people are driving at when asking.
Do you have any credentials for what you are saying? I don’t think everyone is waiting for you to say that you have any number of doctorate degrees, though that is representative of work on the subject. You must certainly have some experience to go with your scholarly expertise. Would you mind sharing it with us so we can know who we are talking to?
We would like to know if we are talking to a novice with opinions or with someone who has had some relevant experience with the topic and not just age on the earth.

Proverbs 20:6
Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness:but a faithful man who can find?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Through out the Bible, God had clearly spoken, what He will do for those who believe in Him. Now, the question is, should we keep asking God to do what He has already promised to do for us. Or should we thank Him every day for doing what He promised, even though it hasn’t happened yet? Should we acknowledge, confess or celebrate what God promised, even though II is not happening yet or has not happened yet?
Imagine a father, who promises to do certain things for his children, because they are his children. Should the children keep asking the father every day, to do what the father already promised to do? Or should the children thank the father for his promise and talk of it as if , it is done already because father said so?
Surely, there are occasions, when we can ask God, but only for those things that He never clearly spoke to give us. Within the next 24 hours, I will give a clear understanding based on scripture, as to how and why I updated the Lord’s Prayer.
It’s been a long day.Need to get some sleep. Stay tuned. Thanks.

I think you might consider Daniel 9:2. 'In the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the LORD through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.'
Now read verses 15-19. Daniel does not thank God for something He has not yet done, but He pleads that God would remember His promises (c.f. also Nehemiah 1).
The Lord Jesus hs told us that He will build His Church and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. However, in Britain and Europe, the gates of hell seem to be doing a good job resisting the Church. I have been pleading this promise of our Lord for quite a few years now, and I will keep on doing so until the promise is fulfilled. 'You who make mention of the LORD, do not keep silent, and give Him no rest until He establishes, and until He makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth.'

 

[BibleVendor]

A self proclaimed scholar? I think that is what people are driving at when asking.
Do you have any credentials for what you are saying? I don’t think everyone is waiting for you to say that you have any number of doctorate degrees, though that is representative of work on the subject. You must certainly have some experience to go with your scholarly expertise. Would you mind sharing it with us so we can know who we are talking to?
We would like to know if we are talking to a novice with opinions or with someone who has had some relevant experience with the topic and not just age on the earth.

Proverbs 20:6
Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness:but a faithful man who can find?

I would like to respond, but for some reason, my response is being deleted before I finish typing? I will try again lafter

 

[BibleVendor]

I would like to respond, but for some reason, my response is being deleted before I finish typing? I will try again lafter

I am a self taught scholar, who has seriously studied the Bible, to find out what God really said on my own and proud of it. But I am also open to correction as long as it is based on scripture.
The Bible is full of stories of regular people, without human-awarded credentials who achieved far more than all the people, with credentials in our time.
The people with credentials opposed Jesus and eventually conspired to frame Him on false charges. Please stay tuned to my other responses to others. I cannot repeat myself to every one. Thanks.

 

[BibleVendor]

So now we know how much of a “Bible scholar” this BibleVendor is.

His only interest is soliciting, selling his questionable religious products which change scriptures.

Anyone that can read, can be a Bible scholar. The word of God is for everyone and not just for those with human-awarded credentials.
Buying copies of my digital products is optional. Churches & ministry sell products of the messages and so do I. And for the gospel to go into all the world, as Jesus commanded, it needs funding from Christians, therefore revenue must be generated some how.

 

[KenH]

I consider myself to be a Bible scholar

I have heard it said that there are no Bible scholars, only Bible students.

and proud of it

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goeth before destruction,
And an haughty spirit before a fall.

 

[John of Japan]

Through out the Bible, God had clearly spoken, what He will do for those who believe in Him. Now, the question is, should we keep asking God to do what He has already promised to do for us. Or should we thank Him every day for doing what He promised, even though it hasn’t happened yet? Should we acknowledge, confess or celebrate what God promised, even though II is not happening yet or has not happened yet?
Imagine a father, who promises to do certain things for his children, because they are his children. Should the children keep asking the father every day, to do what the father already promised to do? Or should the children thank the father for his promise and talk of it as if , it is done already because father said so?
Surely, there are occasions, when we can ask God, but only for those things that He never clearly spoke to give us. Within the next 24 hours, I will give a clear understanding based on scripture, as to how and why I updated the Lord’s Prayer.
It’s been a long day.Need to get some sleep. Stay tuned. Thanks.

Okay, I'll try to wait for your explanation before pontificating further.

 

[Van]

Here is an interpretive translation which emphasizes our desired actions:

Pray like this:

Pray to the Father
and recognize His authority.

Ask for an understanding of His will,
and the willingness to follow.

Ask only for what you need,
and the wisdom to avoid needless desires.

Forgive anyone you think has sinned against you,
and ask for forgiveness for your sins.

Ask for guidance to overcome temptation, and
for insight to keep falsehoods and lies far from you.
(Matt. 6:9-15)​

​

​

 

[John of Japan]

Anyone that can read, can be a Bible scholar. The word of God is for everyone and not just for those with human-awarded credentials.
Buying copies of my digital products is optional. Churches & ministry sell products of the messages and so do I. And for the gospel to go into all the world, as Jesus commanded, it needs funding from Christians, therefore revenue must be generated some how.

Well, sorry. I just had to comment on this egregious statement.

Just being able to read makes you a Bible scholar? This is is a very low view of scholarship. My son, even after he got his BA, MA, MDiv and PhD in NT and had articles published in various theological journals and a couple of books written, told me he would not consider himself a scholar until he had been published in a "1st tier" journal. He now has that distinction, but still does not refer to himself as a scholar. And by the way, just to get into the PhD program he had to learn to read two theological languages. He chose German and French. That is how rigid a good PhD program is.

Here is a more authoritative definition of scholar: "a person who has done advanced study in a special field" (Definition of SCHOLAR). However, I must admit that there is a more generic definition on that website: "a person who attends a school or studies under a teacher : pupil." Perhaps that is what you mean. However, this is an archaic definition and usage. I have served the Lord in academia in both Japan and the US, and I know that no one uses that meaning nowadays.

But here you are. Because you can read you consider yourself to be a scholar.

 

[BibleVendor]

And you have completely evaded the issue, and not answered a single one of my points about your version of the "Lord's Prayer."

Why do you lecture me about the verb tenses in all of those passages, and say nothing about the passage in question? I wrote about the aorist imperatives (requests to God) in the "Lord's Prayer". The NT Greek word for prayer is aiteo (αἰτέω), which means to ask. John R. Rice does a great job with this in his famous book, Prayer: Asking and Receiving.

*Explaining The ‘Lord’s Prayer Updated’:

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart, that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved - Romans 10:9

So, if the most important event in a Christian‘s life and the most important promise of God can be achieved or secured, by confessing, speaking or acknowledging sincerely the Word of God, or what God promised, wouldn’t the rest of God’s promises and blessings be secured in the same manner?

Death and life are in the power of the tongue - Proverbs 18:21

And if death and life are in the power of our mouth, what we speak or confess, wouldn’t the promises and blessings of God, be secured with the very same mouth also?

.. consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus… - Hebrews 3:1

So, if Jesus Christ is the High Priest of our confession, that means there is something that we must be regularly confessing, speaking or acknowledging, that He would be High Priest of? And if we are saved by confessing, speaking or acknowledging sincerely, what God promised, isn’t it logical that Jesus would be the High Priest, over our confession, speaking or acknowledgement of God’s promises and blessings?

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of His Son - Colossians 1:13

Now, in the original Lord’s Prayer, when Jesus said, ‘thy kingdom come’, true the spiritual kingdom of God, had not come yet, because Jesus had not died and risen yet, thus paying the penalty for our redemption and ushering God’s spiritual kingdom on earth.
Notice, that Jesus delivered us from the kingdom of darkness and conveyed us into His kingdom, right here on earth and not in the future or in heaven?
Therefore, under the new covenant and as Christians , there is no need to call on God to send His spiritual kingdom to earth We can simply regularly thank Him for sending it , through our regular confessions or acknowledgment.

..the firstborn from the dead.. - Colossians 1:18

Jesus was the first to be born again from spiritual death to spiritual life, and also became the first Christian & first member of God’s newly arrived spiritual kingdom on earth. After Him , others followed, including us today.

For whoever is born of God overcomes the world - 1 John 5:4

Whoever is born again from spiritual death to spiritual life, by confessing and acknowledging Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, overcomes the world, because they have the birthright for the will of God to be done, in their life, therefore there is no need under the new covenant and as Christians, to call on God to do His will on earth, when we have a birthright to it.
Under the old covent, when the original ‘Lords Prayer’ was given no one was a Christian and could not be, therefore they were not born of God, and did not have a birthright to the Will of God. No one could become a Christian without the death and resurrection of Jesus.

And my God shall supply all your needs, according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus - Philippians 4:19

So, if God has promised to supply all our needs through Jesus Christ, right here on earth, should we ask Him to supply our needs, or should we jjust thank him and regularly acknowledge that He meets our needs?

For if you forgive others their trespassed, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you - Matthew 6:14

Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior , promised us that if we forgive others, God will automatically forgive us also, so when we forgive others, should we ask God to also forgive us, when He has already promised to do so? Shouldn’t we just thank and acknowledge his forgiveness for us?

God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone - James 1:13

If God does not tempt anyone, that means He cannot ‘lead us into temptation’ Therefore, instead of asking or begging God, not to lead us into temptation, we should thank him for our birthright of not to be led into temptation. The people that Jesus gave the prayer to, were not Christians and did not have the right to God’s will. We as Christians have the right.

Colossians 1:13 (already listed above)

So, if God has delivered us from the evil one, what is the point of asking Him again , to deliver us from the evil one? Shouldn’t we just thank and acknowledge His deliverance?

*All feedback negative or positive, is very welcome and I promise to respond to all, though not immediately.
I rest my case. Thanks to all, who have participated or followed this thread.

 

[Ascetic X]

*Explaining The ‘Lord’s Prayer Updated’:

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart, that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved - Romans 10:9

So, if the most important event in a Christian‘s life and the most important promise of God can be achieved or secured, by confessing, speaking or acknowledging sincerely the Word of God, or what God promised, wouldn’t the rest of God’s promises and blessings be secured in the same manner?

Death and life are in the power of the tongue - Proverbs 18:21

And if death and life are in the power of our mouth, what we speak or confess, wouldn’t the promises and blessings of God, be secured with the very same mouth also?

.. consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus… - Hebrews 3:1

So, if Jesus Christ is the High Priest of our confession, that means there is something that we must be regularly confessing, speaking or acknowledging, that He would be High Priest of? And if we are saved by confessing, speaking or acknowledging sincerely, what God promised, isn’t it logical that Jesus would be the High Priest, over our confession, speaking or acknowledgement of God’s promises and blessings?

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of His Son - Colossians 1:13

Now, in the original Lord’s Prayer, when Jesus said, ‘thy kingdom come’, true the spiritual kingdom of God, had not come yet, because Jesus had not died and risen yet, thus paying the penalty for our redemption and ushering God’s spiritual kingdom on earth.
Notice, that Jesus delivered us from the kingdom of darkness and conveyed us into His kingdom, right here on earth and not in the future or in heaven?
Therefore, under the new covenant and as Christians , there is no need to call on God to send His spiritual kingdom to earth We can simply regularly thank Him for sending it , through our regular confessions or acknowledgment.

..the firstborn from the dead.. - Colossians 1:18

Jesus was the first to be born again from spiritual death to spiritual life, and also became the first Christian & first member of God’s newly arrived spiritual kingdom on earth. After Him , others followed, including us today.

For whoever is born of God overcomes the world - 1 John 5:4

Whoever is born again from spiritual death to spiritual life, by confessing and acknowledging Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, overcomes the world, because they have the birthright for the will of God to be done, in their life, therefore there is no need under the new covenant and as Christians, to call on God to do His will on earth, when we have a birthright to it.
Under the old covent, when the original ‘Lords Prayer’ was given no one was a Christian and could not be, therefore they were not born of God, and did not have a birthright to the Will of God. No one could become a Christian without the death and resurrection of Jesus.

And my God shall supply all your needs, according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus - Philippians 4:19

So, if God has promised to supply all our needs through Jesus Christ, right here on earth, should we ask Him to supply our needs, or should we jjust thank him and regularly acknowledge that He meets our needs?

For if you forgive others their trespassed, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you - Matthew 6:14

Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior , promised us that if we forgive others, God will automatically forgive us also, so when we forgive others, should we ask God to also forgive us, when He has already promised to do so? Shouldn’t we just thank and acknowledge his forgiveness for us?

God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone - James 1:13

If God does not tempt anyone, that means He cannot ‘lead us into temptation’ Therefore, instead of asking or begging God, not to lead us into temptation, we should thank him for our birthright of not to be led into temptation. The people that Jesus gave the prayer to, were not Christians and did not have the right to God’s will. We as Christians have the right.

Colossians 1:13 (already listed above)

So, if God has delivered us from the evil one, what is the point of asking Him again , to deliver us from the evil one? Shouldn’t we just thank and acknowledge His deliverance?

*All feedback negative or positive, is very welcome and I promise to respond to all, though not immediately.
I rest my case. Thanks to all, who have participated or followed this thread.

You are wrong on every point. Your mangling of the Lord’s Prayer is not an improvement.

The promises of God are secured by believing, not just confessing.

The kingdom of God on earth has not yet come. We are in His kingdom, but it has not fully arrived in this world.

We still must pray that God’s will be done on earth, for much of what goes on is contrary to the will of God.

We must still ask for our daily bread and thank God for it.

We must both forgive others and request God to forgive us.

We still ask God to not let us be deceived by temptation.

We need deliverance from evil moment by moment, and not assume we are immune.

 

[BibleVendor]

Well, sorry. I just had to comment on this egregious statement.

Just being able to read makes you a Bible scholar? This is is a very low view of scholarship. My son, even after he got his BA, MA, MDiv and PhD in NT and had articles published in various theological journals and a couple of books written, told me he would not consider himself a scholar until he had been published in a "1st tier" journal. He now has that distinction, but still does not refer to himself as a scholar. And by the way, just to get into the PhD program he had to learn to read two theological languages. He chose German and French. That is how rigid a good PhD program is.

Here is a more authoritative definition of scholar: "a person who has done advanced study in a special field" (Definition of SCHOLAR). However, I must admit that there is a more generic definition on that website: "a person who attends a school or studies under a teacher : pupil." Perhaps that is what you mean. However, this is an archaic definition and usage. I have served the Lord in academia in both Japan and the US, and I know that no one uses that meaning nowadays.

But here you are. Because you can read you consider yourself to be a scholar.

Should we dismiss all the ordinary people in the Bible, who did not have human-awarded religious credentials, but knew the Word of God, found favor with God and achieved far more than all the modern religious credentials?
And should we dismiss the ordinary modern day missionaries, who are reaching far more people, with the message of. Jesus Christ, than all those with high religious credentials?
Anyone that seriously studies the Bible, can be considered a scholar, even if they may not have impressive human-awarded credentials.
And your son is entitled to his own opinion of scholarship.