LORDSHIP SALVATION AND THEIR DISCIPLESHIP

[Steven_15]

WHAT IS TRUE DISCIPLESHIP?
Lordship Salvationists claim they are saved by their perfect discipleship & thereby are worthy to accuse/judge/excommunicate other christians as "unsaved" because they haven't ceased from sinning.

But who is a true disciple according to God's word?

Luke 14:26: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple".

However, the lordship Salvationists haven't sold all their possessions & given to the poor but instead cling to their possessions. Yet they claim to be disciples worthy of excommunicating other christians for not ceasing to commit sin!!

Thus according to God's word, they are phoney disciples and according to their own judgment they aren't saved from wrath either!! Beware of such christians lacking both the root and the fruit.

Note: You may post your opinions in agreement with this OP. Lordship Salvationists need NOT answer.

< admin note: ANYONE may respond whether you agree or not !! and that includes Lordshiop salvationishts!>
Salty

 

[canadyjd]

Your accusations toward LS believers are false.

Furthermore, Your characterizations of LS as “phoney disciples” and “not saved from wrath” makes you guilty of the same accusations you make toward LS disciples, namely that LS disciples claim they are worthy to “...accuse/judge/excommunicate other Christians as unsaved....”

You commit the same offense you accuse LS disciples of being guilty of and I suspect you didn’t have a clue you were doing it at the time. That means you are blind to your own faults.

Additionally, I have decided to ignore your admonition to only post on this thread if I agree with your false statements. Welcome to BB

peace to you

 

[Yeshua1]

Your accusations toward LS believers are false.

Furthermore, Your characterizations of LS as “phoney disciples” and “not saved from wrath” makes you guilty of the same accusations you make toward LS disciples, namely that LS disciples claim they are worthy to “...accuse/judge/excommunicate other Christians as unsaved....”

You commit the same offense you accuse LS disciples of being guilty of and I suspect you didn’t have a clue you were doing it at the time. That means you are blind to your own faults.

Additionally, I have decided to ignore your admonition to only post on this thread if I agree with your false statements. Welcome to BB

peace to you

he thinks that I hold to LS due to me daring to have a couple in leadership position in his church stop shacking up together, as I needed to become perfect myself before judging their behavior!

 

[canadyjd]

It is clear that Lordship Salvation theology requires considerable self-examination.

I do believe a person can be so focused on self-reflection that they ruin opportunities for ministry.

For instance, suppose a Christian is supporting a good cause. Knowing that God judges the motives of all acts, she could become consumed with judging her own motives for being involved in the ministry.

Is she involved because she wants to do God’s will or is she just making an appearance to be seen doing good? Such thinking could be dysfunctional.

Personally, I believe the more time you spend thinking about yourself, the less time you have to think about God.

Concerning brothers and sisters involved in sinful activity, Jesus gave us instructions to deal with it.

peace to you

 

[Steven_15]

Your accusations toward LS believers are false.

Furthermore, Your characterizations of LS as “phoney disciples” and “not saved from wrath” makes you guilty of the same accusations you make toward LS disciples, namely that LS disciples claim they are worthy to “...accuse/judge/excommunicate other Christians as unsaved....”

You commit the same offense you accuse LS disciples of being guilty of and I suspect you didn’t have a clue you were doing it at the time. That means you are blind to your own faults.

Additionally, I have decided to ignore your admonition to only post on this thread if I agree with your false statements. Welcome to BB

peace to you

Total nonsense. Phrases like “phoney disciples” and “not saved from wrath” aren't judgements based on the moral law which lordship Salvationists resort to. They are instead statements based on their heretical positions wrt God's word.

 

[Steven_15]

It is clear that Lordship Salvation theology requires considerable self-examination.

I do believe a person can be so focused on self-reflection that they ruin opportunities for ministry.

For instance, suppose a Christian is supporting a good cause. Knowing that God judges the motives of all acts, she could become consumed with judging her own motives for being involved in the ministry.

Is she involved because she wants to do God’s will or is she just making an appearance to be seen doing good? Such thinking could be dysfunctional.

Personally, I believe the more time you spend thinking about yourself, the less time you have to think about God.

Concerning brothers and sisters involved in sinful activity, Jesus gave us instructions to deal with it.

peace to you

Lordship Salvationists haven't been true disciples according to scriptures!! And they go around judging people based on the moral law & declaring them "unsaved"!!! Funny and such judgments are different from mine.

 

[Steven_15]

Lordship Salvationists: Dr Mac is just stating there that if we profess to be saved by jesus, then we shall live in convenience to His will and His word.... Not perfectly, but when we fail to do that, we need to confess that to God, hget cleansed, and keep moving on!

According to the above statement of the lordship Salvationist, no lordship Salvationist is saved because they haven't yet fulfilled Luke 14:33!!

 

[Steven_15]

Lordship Salvationist: "MacArthur has based his beliefs of LS on volumes of scripture which, according to him, support his beliefs.

If any wish to discredit his views then first you must be able to accurately state what he believes, then show how the scripture he used to support those beliefs has been misinterpreted (please be ready for a deep dive into biblical Greek), and then give your own supporting scripture for your views."

The above view is nonsense because:
MacArthur states:

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).

But the Word of God calls the above a lie in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Understanding the above requires a simple faith in Christ's atonement & not a scholarship in greek!!

 

[canadyjd]

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[Yeshua1]

Lordship Salvationist: "MacArthur has based his beliefs of LS on volumes of scripture which, according to him, support his beliefs.

If any wish to discredit his views then first you must be able to accurately state what he believes, then show how the scripture he used to support those beliefs has been misinterpreted (please be ready for a deep dive into biblical Greek), and then give your own supporting scripture for your views."

The above view is nonsense because:
MacArthur states:

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).

But the Word of God calls the above a lie in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Understanding the above requires a simple faith in Christ's atonement & not a scholarship in greek!!

If a pastor is committing adultery in the open, can his church confront him and if he reuses to repent, broom him out?

 

[canadyjd]

If a pastor is committing adultery in the open, can his church confront him and if he reuses to repent, broom him out?

Follow the model given by Jesus. Since he is pastor, he brings greater harm to cause of Christ and is held to higher standards.

peace to you

 

[Dave G]

Lordship Salvationists claim they are saved by their perfect discipleship

If that's what they truly believe, then to me, they've completely missed the true nature of God's grace.

Discipleship, in the Biblical sense, is a life-long process by which God conforms someone to the image of His dear Son.
It is conferred upon a person when they first believe on Christ, the Holy Spirit takes up residence, and they then begin to grow in both knowledge and grace.

Therefore, for someone to claim that their discipleship, or outward walk, is what saves them, then they are not only basing their assurance of salvation on what they do, they are basing their salvation on it.
I've seen a modified form of this among those who hold to loss of salvation, in that many of them seem to believe that their continued holiness is what grants them God's favor.
Without that holiness, they will not see the Lord.

While I believe that without holiness no man shall see the Lord, that holiness is not something "worked up" of our own accord, but something that God's work in a believer produces in them.
Therefore, personal holiness before God is not a determiner, but an indicator of who has eternal life...

Just as enduring faith is.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

WHAT IS TRUE DISCIPLESHIP?
Lordship Salvationists claim they are saved by their perfect discipleship & thereby are worthy to accuse/judge/excommunicate other christians as "unsaved" because they haven't ceased from sinning.

But who is a true disciple according to God's word?

Luke 14:26: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple".

However, the lordship Salvationists haven't sold all their possessions & given to the poor but instead cling to their possessions. Yet they claim to be disciples worthy of excommunicating other christians for not ceasing to commit sin!!

Thus according to God's word, they are phoney disciples and according to their own judgment they aren't saved from wrath either!! Beware of such christians lacking both the root and the fruit.

Note: You may post your opinions in agreement with this OP. Lordship Salvationists need NOT answer.

< admin note: ANYONE may respond whether you agree or not !! and that includes Lordshiop salvationishts!>
Salty

I oppose Lordship Salvation as adding to the scriptures. I reject it, but you seem to be rejecting church discipline as tainted by LS. That is counter to scripture's commands.

I may be getting your position wrong, but the bible is clear that those who simply profess Christ are not all saved. We will know the truly redeemed by their works, but as works and not faith, our good works do not save us. They mark us as those who truly are regenerated by the Spirit and truly are faith-filled.

 

[Steven_15]

I oppose Lordship Salvation as adding to the scriptures. I reject it, but you seem to be rejecting church discipline as tainted by LS. That is counter to scripture's commands.

I may be getting your position wrong, but the bible is clear that those who simply profess Christ are not all saved. We will know the truly redeemed by their works, but as works and not faith, our good works do not save us. They mark us as those who truly are regenerated by the Spirit and truly are faith-filled.

Are you a disciple according to Luke 14:33?

 

[Steven_15]

If that's what they truly believe, then to me, they've completely missed the true nature of God's grace.

Discipleship, in the Biblical sense, is a life-long process by which God conforms someone to the image of His dear Son.
It is conferred upon a person when they first believe on Christ, the Holy Spirit takes up residence, and they then begin to grow in both knowledge and grace.

Therefore, for someone to claim that their discipleship, or outward walk, is what saves them, then they are not only basing their assurance of salvation on what they do, they are basing their salvation on it.
I've seen a modified form of this among those who hold to loss of salvation, in that many of them seem to believe that their continued holiness is what grants them God's favor.
Without that holiness, they will not see the Lord.

While I believe that without holiness no man shall see the Lord, that holiness is not something "worked up" of our own accord, but something that God's work in a believer produces in them.
Therefore, personal holiness before God is not a determiner, but an indicator of who has eternal life...

Just as enduring faith is.

Therefore, personal holiness before God is not a determiner, but an indicator of who has eternal life...

How much holiness (degree of holiness) is an indicator of who has eternal life?

Have the lordship salvationists forsaken all according to Luke 14:23 to qualify as disciples? If not why do they preach about discipleship and accuse others?

 

[Steven_15]

Follow the model given by Jesus. Since he is pastor, he brings greater harm to cause of Christ and is held to higher standards.

peace to you

Are the lordship Salvationists disciples according to Luke 14:33?

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Are you a disciple according to Luke 14:33?

You seem to be taking that verse out of context. It actually refers to a willingness to lose our lives as martyrs to be a disciple. We recognize the need to be persecuted and killed for our faith to be disciples. Anyone who forsakes Jesus Christ to live or have an end to persecution is not a real faithful believer. It isn't a demand for sinless perfection to follow Jesus, the Beatitude "blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven" rules that out. We therefore count the cost in persecution to be Christians.

 

[canadyjd]

Are the lordship Salvationists disciples according to Luke 14:33?

Are you?

Show me a quote from an adherent to LS where they claim they are saved by their perfect discipleship.

peace to you

 

[Salty]

Since the OP has been temporally banned and unable to answer- this thread is closed.