Lordship Salvation: Is it false?

[DHK]

Adoption is not mentioned in this passage. As such, Nic at night is somewhat amazed at the words, mentioning coming from the womb when he is old. Adoption is not the point.

Well, you didn't tell me your interpretation, so I can't say if I agree or not.

What about the one that has been mentioned.

3 v. 8 "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Wind and "Spirit" are used here as a play on words. They both are "pneuma" in the greek.

Spirit is Spirit, the Holy Spirit. Of that there is no question.
The question is, what does the word "water" represent?
Verse 8 has nothing to do with answering that question.

 

[canadyjd]

Spirit is Spirit, the Holy Spirit. Of that there is no question.
The question is, what does the word "water" represent?
Verse 8 has nothing to do with answering that question.

You still haven't told me what you think it means.

peace to youraying:

 

[JustChristian]

That is only your opinion. You have no Scriptural foundation for that statement. He was speaking to his chosen 12, not to all the believers. There was a reason for that. Later on he sent out 70. Why the difference. The chosen 12 never changed (except for Judas). Your argument here holds no water.

These men already had their salvation. Your position denies eternal security. Your position is that Peter, James and John could at any time lose their salvation, and in fact Jesus was telling them to do that. That is ridiculous. Why would Jesus tell them to lose their salvation if the subject if the topic is about salvation? It is not! It is about discipleship. If you lose your life for my sake (the sake of Christ) you will find it (find great reward in serving Christ). Both statement must be speaking of the same thing. If one half of the statement is speaking of salvation so must the other. If one half is speaking of discipleship, so must the other. Only the interpretation I gave you makes sense in the context. Discipleship requires sacrifice. Sacrifice brings reward after salvation; not before.

Then you believe in a works based salvation.

And these instructions are for the disciples to maintain their salvation? or for the disciples to get saved. You are preaching a works based salvation. He is addressing the disciples and no one else.

Your position makes no sense and even denies the sufficiency of the blood of Christ.

You stated the problem with your position. Judas is one of the twelve.

These men already had their salvation.

I think it's dangerous to look at the specific group that words in the Bible are addressed to and assume that they don't apply to anyone else. You're claiming that everything Jesus said to His deciples don't apply to us?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

You stated the problem with your position. Judas is one of the twelve.

These men already had their salvation.

Stop the presses...are you suggesting Judas Iscariot was saved?

 

[DHK]

Stop the presses...are you suggesting Judas Iscariot was saved?

I don't think anyone is. It is naive to think that every time Jesus speaks to his disciples that he is including unsaved, simply because of the presence of Judas. That is untrue.
For example: His disciples came to him and asked him: "Lord teach us to pray."
And he said, "After this manner pray ye, Our Father which art in heaven."

"Stop the presses. Are you saying that Judas can now call God as His Father!!"
Of course not. But Jesus was speaking to the twelve as His disciples. He was directing his course of instruction to them. So it was to them then, and so it was in this passage as well. It makes no difference whether Judas was present or not. That argument is non sequitor.