Lordship Salvation? - Part Two

I didn't denigrate. You did. I posted scripture. I thought you preferred scripture.

 

This is rich.

 

Welcome to frustration 101.

 

There has to be a way to reconcile scholars and humility together. I am going to seek this out. Surely, there is a way.

 

Maybe, but I don't think forums are conducive to good communications. Pack the same people in a room and you'd get a whole different set of dynamics. You might not end up friends, but I think discussions would go quite differently.

 

I think this is true of most people on here. I don't know that we could say that of all folks on here or that have been on here .

As for the "articles" in Scripture or the lack there of, since God said there is "life" in every word that has proceeded out of His mounth I think it behooves us to understand why they are there.

 

mmets I think the problem with scholarship is that everyone has their "pet" scholar and sometimes it just comes down to a "my scholar is a better scholar than your scholar."

I think teachers are important, but I think that it is equally as important to study for ourselves to show ourselves approved.

For example I don't know how much you have kept up with this thread over the last several days, but lines were drawn in the sand, and rightfully so, over what the Greek word aionios means. Most all translations translate the word as eternal or everlasting in some cases.

However there are a number of "scholars" that say the word can never mean eternal in the sense that we use the word eternal these days meaning without beginning and without end. Then you have another side that says the word does in fact mean without beginning and without end because that's what our "scholars" say.

And it boiled down to well if you don't trust Strong's then there is no hope for you.

So at some point we have to set aside tradition (because it's not infallible) and just look at the Scripture and allow the Spirit to lead us and guide us down the right path.

But when it's all said and done there is a correct and then there is everything else, because the Holy Spirit only leads in one direction.

I think we put ourselves in a very dangerous position when we rely so heavily on "scholars" and "tradition."

Don't know if that even addresses your point now that I'm done rambling, but that's just .02 and some say it's not even worth that . I pray you will keep studying the matter out for yourself and come up with your own conclusion. Don't take anybody's word for anything. Test it ALL against the Scriptures because they only lead to Truth!

 

Well, I guess I need to go toss all my Bibles in their various translations in a box and place it in storage until I complete my edumacation in Greek. Because of that one little word, "the" I (and all the Bible translators) have misinterpreted the scriptures and am following a false doctrine of salvation of the spirit and soul, of which neither will be spend the millennium in hell.

As far as "the" sin of doing what is right in your own eye, my, you do have to re-interpret scripture to come up with that. We'll ALL be spending 1000 years in hell for that one. But wait..... there's hope! Christ died for even THAT sin ("the" sin) and since I have put my trust in His work and not my own, I'll be with the Lord.

John 14:3
"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

 

Amen, Amy. At best, "the sin" could possibly refer back to "original sin", which is how this passage in Romans started (the part about Adam). The KS folks are using it like Jehovah's Witnesses use "a God", etc. It's a sorry tactic.

 

Well, I have a great privilege of having a scholar as my Uncle. Dr. Roy Metts of the Criswell College is the professor of Greek. He has mastered the Greek NT. Complete memorization. But I don't quote him, I hardly know his stand points, and I'm tired of getting birthday cards written in Greek! The only scholarly debate I had with him was last year, I somehow stumbled into a conversation about Arminian/Calvinism. I think I faired well against my Uncle until I tried to explain to him that Arminian's didn't believed you could lose salvation. Somehow I completely polarized that one...

Hehe, this is really funny..

 

:laugh: :laugh:

 

That is not the case, but you can't stick your head in the sand and say that the translations are infallible. And you can't assume that everything that was translated in 1611 meant the same thing it does some 400 years later.

Even npetreley understands this later truth as evidenced in one of his postings in the tranlsation section.

Which again strikes me as funny, but not surprising.

And bottom line is I'm not sure how you all think with all your wise cracks and smart elic responses that we are supposed to be even more convinced that you are right.

We constantly are giving you Scriptures and every time we do you thumb your nose with another one-liner.

Now just so I'll set the record straight on this I know that I have used some wise cracks, but I don't espouse a drop your theology and believe me because I say so either.

If you don't want to agree that's one thing, but don't act like you are better than someone else because we actually want to know what the original words were and what they meant so we can enhance our understanding of Scripture.

Nobody has told you that you have to, but I think enough has been shown that because of the handing down of bad teachings over the years a return to the original langauges will do nothing but help not hinder our understanding.

 

Bingo. :thumbs:

 

I don't know if the KV1611 says the sin or not. Mine does not say "the".

But, the point I am trying to make is this, you have made it impossible for someone (the average Bible reader) to understand basic doctrines of Christianity because you and HoG have repeatedly made reference to the "root" of a word or the tense or doman. And now you are telling us that the removal of the word "the" has caused us to misinterpret basic doctrines, and if we would just learn Greek we could understand what the Bible really says.

God gave His word to us to be understood by the average guy. I have no doubt that God is quite capable of teaching me the scriptures without having to learn the original languages.

It seems, so far as I've seen, the only way you can make your KS doctrine work is to make the scriptures too complicated for the average person to understand and must rely on your interpretation to "get it".

 

Don't forget the KS decoder ring, which lets you see that "black is white". It is what allows you to change things like "it is God who justifes" to "we justify ourselves by our works".

According to the above, God does it all. He predestines, calls, justifies, and glorifies those He foreknew. And He does it in an unbroken line without any help from man.

 

Have you ever seen the little notes in the KJV, usually in the center column? Know why those are there? To further expound upon the text; to explain the underlying text. The KJV translators themselves do this. (A good example is the 10 virgins in which the text says their lamps are "going out", but the KJV says "gone out". There's a note from the perfet, infallible KJV translators that explains that it is "going out".)

And, you keep saying that no translators translate the definite article. There are plenty who have. However, if I were trying to do a word-for-word translation, probably would not include it in the text, and use a textual apparatus to denote the definite article (as some translators do) or use a textual note (as some translators do). Why? Because we're told that the sin is lawlessness. They are synonymous, but they are not the same word. "Lawlessness" is "anomia". So, the wages of the sin is thanatos death, and the sin is lawlessness. Lawlessness is doing what is right in your own eyes.

Line upon line.

BTW, all lawlessness is sin, but not all sin is lawlessness. Unless you think there's only one sin in the Bible.

 

That must be why this doctrine has eluded me. I don't use the KJV. Yes, it's true. I have one, but if I want a KJ reference, I usually look it up on Blue letter Bible. I use the NKJV and the NASB.

 

No the blame goes to all the pastor/teachers that have departed from "the" faith and taught doctrines that tickle people's ears such as it doesn't matter what you do in this life if you are saved you will get a piece of paradise pie just like the next person, only your slice may be a little smaller. Or the equally as false doctrine of if you don't have works then you aren't really saved in the first place. Or if you stop believing you really didn't believe the first time.

Had the pastor/teacher continued in the Scriptures instead of following away after their own lusts we wouldn't be having these conversations. Now that is really not the case today, because you have genuine and sincere people that trully believe these things to be true, but it's because that's what they've been taught over the years.

The blame does not lie with people that are trying to return to the originals. That doesn't even make sense. How can you be worse off studying the original words than studying what man says the original words say? Do you see the illogic in that?

 

There is no possible way this line can be true. If that were the case there would be no need to warn believers to not quench the Holy Spirit. The Spirit must have our cooperation in the sanctification process. There's so many more examples that could be given to show you this is as about a false a statement as there is.

 

What do your pastor and fellow church members think of ME?