Lordship Salvation? - Part Two

[webdog]

That is 100% of humanity. There is not one human who dies without unconfessed sin. I guess all humanity spends 1000 years at least in hell, with some's stay longer than others...

 

[fear of the lord]

I can't understand how one can feel that passages like
I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee can be used to say God cannot judge his people? Scriptures like Heb10 tell us that he most definantly will judge us.That judgement being one of works will exclude some from certain rewards or be cast into outerdarkness.
Heb13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

From what I can gather is that most of those posting would apply warnings of punishment in scripture to unbelivers who don't have the Holy Spirit indwelling them.What then is the loss that is suffered in 1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Ok so if I me a believer defile the temple of God, God will destroy me.That passage provoked me to start studing the kingdom reign of Christ.Other doctrines like Lordship salvation simple don't hold up to scripture.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Full of questions and short on answers I see. Not even going to take a stab at telling me why I have to confess something that's already forgiven? Why am I reminding God of something that He has removed as far as the east is from the west?

As far as your question goes I will reiterate what HoG has already said. No one has said that Christ's blood is "limited" to "only" past sins. What we have said is that your past sins are forgiven and washed by the blood at the moment you are saved, but any sins after that point still have to be dealt with according to I John 1:9.

Again I'm just curious why does God tell me He's only going to forgive what He's already forgiven if I confess. Does that really make sense to you?


Well if you don't confess your sins then you are the one that is limiting the blood not Christ or the Father. We are fully capable of having the blood applied to future sins, but only if we confess according to I John 1:9.

Now we know. You cannot back up your statement with scripture. But what you want to do is redirect with your flawed reasoning.

HOG Jump made the claim that christs blood only covered past sins. Which he cannot support.

 

[J. Jump]

HOG Jump made the claim that christs blood only covered past sins.

That is an out and out lie!

Seriously can you not read?

No one has said that Christ's blood is "limited" to "only" past sins.

Again your fruit of dishonesty should really put up a red flag for those that read your statements.

I and HoG have said that Christ's blood deals only with past sins at the moment of eternal salvation. That says NOTHING to His blood covering only past sins.

Is your theology so twisted that the only thing you have left is to lie?

Again if you are so correct why have I asked four or five times for you to answer a question that should take you a couple of minutes at the most to answer?

Why do I have to confess something for forgiveness (I John 1:9) that has already been forgiven?

I know crow's tough to eat, but it's a lot better than lying about another saved person. That's just pathetic.

 

[Lou Martuneac]

My Take

I'm still wondering why he went away unsaved WITHOUT Christ sharing the good news with him? Don't you think this guy at least deserved to hear the Truth?

By the way I'm still wondering why Jesus didn't tell him he lacked faith. Maybe you want to take a crack at these two LM since no one else does.

JJ:

The Bible is silent on some things and this appears to be one of them. It is clear from the event and context that this young man came and went away unsaved.


LM

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

That is an out and out lie!

Seriously can you not read?

Really well let's take alook at your words.

From JJump post # 61
Amy His blood doesn't wash ALL your sins away past present and future when you are eternally saved. If that were the case there would be no need to confess your sins. You are cleansed from your past sins, but your present and future sins, must have the blood applied to them.

Again your fruit of dishonesty should really put up a red flag for those that read your statements.

Your words not mine.

I and HoG have said that Christ's blood deals only with past sins at the moment of eternal salvation.

There you go again with what you say you did not say.

That says NOTHING to His blood covering only past sins.

You say it and deny it in the same paragraph.

Is your theology so twisted that the only thing you have left is to lie?

More redirection. No validation.

Again if you are so correct why have I asked four or five times for you to answer a question that should take you a couple of minutes at the most to answer?

No sir. It is you who will not answer my question.

Why do I have to confess something for forgiveness (I John 1:9) that has already been forgiven?

Great when you tell me where does scripture say Christs blood is limited to past sins?

I know crow's tough to eat, but it's a lot better than lying about another saved person. That's just pathetic.

Your false accusations are getting old.
And it is just a cover for what you cannot answer.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

quoted from jjump

Amy His blood doesn't wash ALL your sins away past present and future when you are eternally saved. If that were the case there would be no need to confess your sins. You are cleansed from your past sins, but your present and future sins, must have the blood applied to them.

Here is the problem with what you have said. If it were true that Christ blood was not sufficient at the moment of salvation to cover present and future sins, then that means that when we sin we have lost our slavation and must get saved again each time we sin. If we have sinned and the blood has not been applied to that sin we are lost.

Heb 9:22 - And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
So now according to you we have people whos salvation is unsecure and need to get saved over and over again. You cannot be saved if your sin is not under the blood.

 

[EdSutton]

Alright, children! Fight nice!! Let's keep it down to a rumble, please!

Ed

 

[J. Jump]

Amy His blood doesn't wash ALL your sins away past present and future when you are eternally saved.

You've quoted me twice now that has slapped your lie in the face, once again simply proving your dishonest tactics. NEVER have I said that Christ's blood is ONLY good for past sins.

It really is beyond me why when someone has proven to be incorrect over and over and that they are CLEARLY lying about someone why they are still allowed the privelage of posting on this site.

Not one time have I ever said what you are accusing me of. So I guess bearing false witness is okay in your book, huh?

Your words not mine.

And both of the quotes you have posted prove your accusations to be false.

No sir. It is you who will not answer my question.

Really . . . how many times now have I asked this simple question that you either can not or refuse to answer? Why do I have to confess something for God to forgive that He has already forgiven?

Why can you not answer that question.

Great when you tell me where does scripture say Christs blood is limited to past sins?

Your lie. I can't answer that question because His blood IS NOT LIMITED to past sins. Catch a clue. That's the third time I've said that and yet you continue in your lies.

Your false accusations are getting old.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[webdog]

JJump, quit with the dishonest tactic debating. You have been shown that your constant calling of others "liars" only comes back to bite you when YOUR quotes are used to show they were not lying. If people have such a hard time "representing your beliefs", you obviously are stating facts in a deceitful way. This is really getting old...

Amy His blood doesn't wash ALL your sins away past present and future when you are eternally saved. If that were the case there would be no need to confess your sins. You are cleansed from your past sins, but your present and future sins, must have the blood applied to them.

 

[npetreley]

I think you guys are talking past each other. Here's what I think Jump is really saying: You are forgiven for all past sins when you are saved. The only way to be forgiven for sins you commit after salvation is to confess those sins, at which point the blood of Christ is applied to them. If you do not confess them, you are still held accountable for them.

So while it's accurate to say that the blood of Christ only covers past sins at the point of salvation, it is not accurate to say it never covers present and future sins. You simply have to confess your sins for it to apply to present and future sins.


This does not in any way represent an endorsement of kingdom salvation. I just hope this clears up the misunderstanding.

 

[EdSutton]

May I suggest that if all will actually read their threads and contemplate what they are actually posting, as opposed to posting quickly, in a knee-jerk reaction, many of these 'arguments' would never exist, simply because we (all of us) would read, and then often re-word before posting, to eliminate any potential confusion.

Then it might not get so 'personal', and we could leave that sort of junk for the KJVO and
C/A threads.

Ed

 

[J. Jump]

JJump, quit with the dishonest tactic debating.

Find the closest mirror because you have a log jam in your eye that is impaling you.

All of the quotes that have been posted say NOTHING of what I have been accused of. Now you need to join with II Timothy and step up to a plate of crow and apologize. But I not going to hold my breath for either of you.

Once again that's just beyond pathetic when you can't even discuss things in a civilized manner and you have to resort to lying about another person to make yourself and your doctrine look good.

You know it would be one thing if it was a mistake at first. However when someone continues after three times being corrected that's not a mistake. That's blatant.

And I apprecaite you posting my quote once again which proves both of you wrong - WHEN YOU ARE ETERNALLY SAVED!

You both need a serious lesson in reading comprehension. That didn't say His blood was ONLY limited to past sins. I said it only DEALT WITH past sins when we were eternally saved. His blood CAN be appropriated to future sins, but it is not automatic.

 

[J. Jump]

You are forgiven for all past sins when you are saved. The only way to be forgiven for sins you commit after salvation is to confess those sins, at which point the blood of Christ is applied to them. If you do not confess them, you are still held accountable for them.

See a person that doesn't even agree with me can at least understand what I'm talking about. And what I have ACTUALLY said.

Thanks npetreley!

 

[Amy.G]

See a person that doesn't even agree with me can at least understand what I'm talking about. And what I have ACTUALLY said.

Thanks npetreley!

The wages of sin is death, unless you've received salvation through Christ. So, if you die with any unconfessed sins that have not had the blood applied, you will die in your unforgiven, un-atoned for sins and will not see eternal life.

Is that what you believe?

 

[J. Jump]

So, if you die with any unconfessed sins that have not had the blood applied, you will die in your unforgiven, un-atoned for sins and will not see eternal life.

Amy I don't think it can be simplified down to that level.

But what I do know is that it makes no sense for God to require us to confess something so that He can forgive something that He has already forgiven. Does that make sense to you? If so please explain.

 

[Amy.G]

Amy I don't think it can be simplified down to that level.

But what I do know is that it makes no sense for God to require us to confess something so that He can forgive something that He has already forgiven. Does that make sense to you? If so please explain.

Part of the sancification process, being conformed to the image of Christ, restoring fellowship with God.
If a person who claims to be a believer can sin with no conviction of it and has no desire to seek forgiveness, they probably aren't saved at all.

And it is simple. Either you have been washed clean or you haven't. If you die with any sin still on your account, you will die a spiriual death as well as the physical one, because the wages of sin is death.

 

[OHM]

Part of the sancification process, being conformed to the image of Christ, restoring fellowship with God.
If a person who claims to be a believer can sin with no conviction of it and has no desire to seek forgiveness, they probably aren't saved at all.

And it is simple. Either you have been washed clean or you haven't. If you die with any sin still on your account, you will die a spiriual death as well as the physical one, because the wages of sin is death.

Amy you haven't explained anything though. Why do I have to confess to have something forgiven that has already been forgiven? That's the question at hand.

You say that all sins are forgiven so there is no way for my fellowship to be compromised, because everything that I have done and will do is separated as far as the east is from the west, so there is nothing to get in the way of my fellowship according to your view.

But again I John 1:9 says there is sin that is not forgiven and is in need of forgiveness. If you confess God is faithful and just to forgive us. That means the forgiveness has not taken place yet.

So why is God asking us to confess something so He can forgive something that you say is already forgiven?

 

[webdog]

Find the closest mirror because you have a log jam in your eye that is impaling you.

How would you know what's in my eye?

All of the quotes that have been posted say NOTHING of what I have been accused of. Now you need to join with II Timothy and step up to a plate of crow and apologize. But I not going to hold my breath for either of you.

Yeah...don't hold your breath, because no apology is coming. Your positiion has been presented accurately. Even what npet posted represents your postion, and you agreed with him. You have no problem throwing out the "liar" tag to those who you say misrepresent your position. Even if this were so (it's not), it's not lying.

You both need a serious lesson in reading comprehension. That didn't say His blood was ONLY limited to past sins. I said it only DEALT WITH past sins when we were eternally saved. His blood CAN be appropriated to future sins, but it is not automatic.

Wrong. Christ died once for ALL SIN!! You need a serious lesson in hermeneutics! As pastorsbc posted in the other thread...

Hebrews 10:10, 12-14 "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because one sacrifice he has made perfect those who are being made holy"

 

[webdog]

So why is God asking us to confess something so He can forgive something that you say is already forgiven?

One word: sanctification.