Lordship Salvation? - Part Two

[J. Jump]

Yeah...don't hold your breath, because no apology is coming.

Don't worry I wasn't expecting one. Someone that doesn't even agree with my theology has even said you two are wrong and you still won't own up to your lying tactics. You never have the in the past, so why should now be any different.

Your positiion has been presented accurately.

No it hasn't and even someone else has called your attention to it.

what npet posted represents your postion, and you agreed with him.

Which is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than what you and II Tim have accused me of, but you won't even take his word on the matter that shows how stubborn you are.

have no problem throwing out the "liar" tag to those who you say misrepresent your position.

You're right I don't, especially when the matter continues on past the first time. The first time I'm willing to chalk it up to an honest mistake, but when the mistake has been corrected and you continue on that's intentional.

Even if this were so (it's not), it's not lying.

:laugh: WOW are you kidding me. Intentionally misrepresenting what someone has said or believe isn't lying. That's a good one. Wrong is right and right is wrong. Black is white and white is black.

Christ died once for ALL SIN!!

So I guess now you want us to believe that dying means forgiving. Of course He died once for all sin, that doesn't mean all sin is forgiven.

You need a serious lesson in hermeneutics!

:laugh: Glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this or I might need a new keyboard and mouse.

 

[webdog]

Which is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than what you and II Tim have accused me of, but you won't even take his word on the matter that shows how stubborn you are.

If my memory serves me correctly, I only posted your quote.

:laugh: WOW are you kidding me. Intentionally misrepresenting what someone has said or believe isn't lying. That's a good one. Wrong is right and right is wrong. Black is white and white is black.

"un" intentionally misrepresentation is not lying.

So I guess now you want us to believe that dying means forgiving. Of course He died once for all sin, that doesn't mean all sin is forgiven.

Unbelievable :tear:

 

[Amy.G]

Don't worry I wasn't expecting one. Someone that doesn't even agree with my theology has even said you two are wrong and you still won't own up to your lying tactics. You never have the in the past, so why should now be any different.


No it hasn't and even someone else has called your attention to it.


Which is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than what you and II Tim have accused me of, but you won't even take his word on the matter that shows how stubborn you are.


You're right I don't, especially when the matter continues on past the first time. The first time I'm willing to chalk it up to an honest mistake, but when the mistake has been corrected and you continue on that's intentional.


:laugh: WOW are you kidding me. Intentionally misrepresenting what someone has said or believe isn't lying. That's a good one. Wrong is right and right is wrong. Black is white and white is black.


So I guess now you want us to believe that dying means forgiving. Of course He died once for all sin, that doesn't mean all sin is forgiven.


:laugh: Glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this or I might need a new keyboard and mouse.

This whole post is a waste of cyberspace. I haven't heard such talk as this since I was in the 3rd grade.
Please show some maturity.


As for the subject at hand, what happens, in your opinion to the person who dies with unconfessed sin (which as you said has not been covered by the blood until the person asks forgiveness)?
The wages of sin is death. Surely, you aren't going say I've misinterpreted that verse. If you die with sin on your account, you will die a spiritual death (permanent separation from God).
How do you explain this?

 

[Amy.G]

I asked this earlier, but didn't get an answer. Can you show us where Paul taught the ME doctrine?

Paul said that if anyone preaches a different gospel than the one he preached, let them be accursed.

I see the ME doctrine as a different gospel than the one Paul preached. Can you show me otherwise?

 

[J. Jump]

Please show some maturity.

You have got to be joking. Two people blatantly lie about me and someone else evens points out their error and I'm the one that needs to mature. That is classic.

Why don't you post about how those two need to grow up and offer an apology for intentionally bearing false witness against a fellow saved individual.

By the way I'm still waiting for why I need to confess something to have it forgiven when it's already forgiven. You try answering that one first.

Until then I'm done with this conversation.

You people want to deal in dishonesty that you can deal amongst yourselves. This is disgusting.

 

[J. Jump]

"un" intentionally misrepresentation is not lying.

And like I said after the first time you can't call it "un" intentional any longer.

 

[Amy.G]

JJump:

By the way I'm still waiting for why I need to confess something to have it forgiven when it's already forgiven. You try answering that one first.

It's already been stated by several people, sanctification.

Now, answer my question.
Amy:

I asked this earlier, but didn't get an answer. Can you show us where Paul taught the ME doctrine?

Paul said that if anyone preaches a different gospel than the one he preached, let them be accursed.

I see the ME doctrine as a different gospel than the one Paul preached. Can you show me otherwise?

 

[J. Jump]

It's already been stated by several people, sanctification.

Sorry but that's not an answer. That gives no indication as to why God needs to forgive something He has already forgiven.

Why does God have to deal a second time with sin that He has already removed as far as the east is from the west? Maybe stating the question that way will help. In your pov God has already eternally dealt with the sin, but you are saying He has to deal with it twice because the first time didn't completely deal with it.

The whole point is if I have to confess my sins in order for God to forgive them that means He hasn't forgive them in the past. He doesn't deal with things twice. The first time is perfect.

As to your question I believe James gave you an answer. They will face the judgment seat of Christ and will receive reward for what they have done in this body whether good or bad.

 

[npetreley]

As to your question I believe James gave you an answer. They will face the judgment seat of Christ and will receive reward for what they have done in this body whether good or bad.

Just for clarification, do you also agree with James that if you have any unconfessed sin at death, you go to hell or some other bad place for 1,000 years?

 

[J. Jump]

Just for clarification, do you also agree with James that if you have any unconfessed sin at death, you go to hell or some other bad place for 1,000 years?

I can not answer that definitively. I would like to think that someone that has lived a faithful and overcoming and obedient life would not throw all of that away because they cursed right before they were hit by a semi-truck and killed.

But I have to say this. If that is in fact the case I am in no position to argue with the Perfect Judge and He will judge perfectly and He will judge righteously and the defendant will not have a single leg to stand on regardless of how the judgment comes out.

However I think the Bible is explicity clear that the majority are headed for destruction and the way leading to life is narrow and few there be that find it. As to how many bad works or unconfessed sins place you onto the road to destruction I have no way of knowing.

I think the more appropriate attitude would be to seek the kingdom and the rest will take care of itself. If we are looking unto Jesus as Scripture tells us to then we will slowly but surely be moving away from the crossover line.

 

[npetreley]

I can not answer that definitively. I would like to think that someone that has lived a faithful and overcoming and obedient life would not throw all of that away because they cursed right before they were hit by a semi-truck and killed.

It doesn't matter what you hate to think. Would your theology be consistent or not? If someone does curse right before they're hit by that mac truck, then how could that be forgiven since they didn't have time to confess it?

The question is, do you think the punishment for unconfessed sin is 1,000 years in hell or some other bad place? A yes or no answer is all you need to give.

However I think the Bible is explicity clear that the majority are headed for destruction and that the way that leads to life is narrow and few there be that find it. As to how many bad works or unconfessed sins place you onto the road to destruction I have no way of knowing.

Again, it's not a matter of you knowing or not. It's a matter of consistency with your doctrine.

You seem to be saying that it's all relative. God will somehow whip out a scale and pile up your good deeds on one side and your (unconfessed) bad deeds on the other. If the scale tips one way, you're off the hook and/or will get rewards. If it tips the other, you go to hell for 1,000 years.

Aside from this being a bizarre doctrine, I can't help but see the similarity between this and the majority view of the unregenerate about accountability. Most unregenerate people who think there is a God somehow believe that if they're basically a good person, they'll go to heaven. It's how it balances out with their bad deeds that matters.

 

[Amy.G]

I asked this earlier, but didn't get an answer. Can you show us where Paul taught the ME doctrine?

Paul said that if anyone preaches a different gospel than the one he preached, let them be accursed.

I see the ME doctrine as a different gospel than the one Paul preached. Can you show me otherwise?

Ok, I will ask this again. I don't know why I can't get an answer.
Did Paul preach ME doctrine? Yes or No. Give scripture please.

 

[J. Jump]

Ok, I will ask this again. I don't know why I can't get an answer.
Did Paul preach ME doctrine? Yes or No. Give scripture please.

Amy you know you have participated in these discussions before and Scripture has been given in both the OT and NT alike that proves this doctrine to be true. Just do a search for some of the old threads and go back through them.

Or if you would like I would be more than happy to point you to some resources that will help guide you along what you are talking about.

But the simple answer to your question is yes Paul preached this doctrine and all you have to do is look at the majority of all his writings. He deals ver little with everlasting life. Most of what he deals with is making sure people are headed in the right direction as far as the kingdom goes.

 

[Amy.G]

Amy you know you have participated in these discussions before and Scripture has been given in both the OT and NT alike that proves this doctrine to be true. Just do a search for some of the old threads and go back through them.

Or if you would like I would be more than happy to point you to some resources that will help guide you along what you are talking about.

But the simple answer to your question is yes Paul preached this doctrine and all you have to do is look at the majority of all his writings. He deals ver little with everlasting life. Most of what he deals with is making sure people are headed in the right direction as far as the kingdom goes.

Sigh....indulge me. Please refer me to some specific verses where Paul taught this. You can't support your doctrine by saying "just read the Bible".

 

[J. Jump]

It doesn't matter what you hate to think.

I thought I made that abundantly clear.

If that is in fact the case I am in no position to argue with the Perfect Judge and He will judge perfectly and He will judge righteously and the defendant will not have a single leg to stand on regardless of how the judgment comes out.

What I "think" is of no matter on the subject.

If someone does curse right before they're hit by that mac truck, then how could that be forgiven since they didn't have time to confess it?

It can't. The question then becomes will someone's one unconfessed sin override their entire lifetime of obedience and faithfulness and I can't answer that question. I'm not the Judge. Again I thought I was pretty clear in this point the first time.

A yes or no answer is all you need to give.

Sorry to disappoint you but a yes or no answer is not possible. The question is not that simple.

God will somehow whip out a scale and pile up your good deeds on one side and your (unconfessed) bad deeds on the other. If the scale tips one way, you're off the hook and/or will get rewards. If it tips the other, you go to hell for 1,000 years.

I apologize if I gave you that impression.

I don't know how Christ will determine that. Again all I know is what Scripture says. It says that the majority are going to find destruction and the few are going to find life.

I know it tells us to be obedient, faithful and overcoming. I know it tells me to seek the kingdom and to look unto Jesus. I know it tells me to tell others about the the Truth of the coming kingdom and that we have a hope of glory, but it is conditional.

As far as weeding the tares out of the wheat that's not my job and I don't have a lot of Scripture to answer your question.

With all that being said it seems that what you all try to do is work your way to a question that doesn't get answered or can't be answered and then say AH HA I got you. You can't answer that question so your theology is wrong. And that's simply not the case.

I don't have all the answers. Mostly because all my questions don't seem to have answers to them, but I have had enough of my questions answered through Scripture that I know this to be the Truth.

Aside from this being a bizarre doctrine, I can't help but see the similarity between this and the majority view of the unregenerate about accountability. Most unregenerate people who think there is a God somehow believe that if they're basically a good person, they'll go to heaven. It's how it balances out with their bad deeds that matters.

Sorry, but it's not even close! This doctrine deals with saved people ONLY. Those that are destined for the never ending lake of fire are not even in the picture.

 

[J. Jump]

Sigh....indulge me.

Why do I need to indulge your curiosity? How many verses are going to be enough for you to change your mind? One, five, 10? How about 20? Maybe 30? Would 50 be enough?

This is another thing that I really don't understand. You all are so adamant about how this doctrine is wrong, but you want to play these little games.

I have offered MANY times to send you study material and you can knock yourself out with your curiosity. I have even offered to have one-on-one conversations with you to which you have NEVER responded postively to.

Why must I indulge you now?

 

[webdog]

Why do I need to indulge your curiosity? How many verses are going to be enough for you to change your mind? One, five, 10? How about 20? Maybe 30? Would 50 be enough?

If the majority of the NT is dealing with this message as you say...that's a start...

I have offered MANY times to send you study material and you can knock yourself out with your curiosity.

Why not post the links for the whole BB?

 

[J. Jump]

Why not post the links for the whole BB?

Because I'm not required to and I personally don't want to put the material out there and then have these people hasseled. You're "web" savy you can look the material up.

 

[Amy.G]

Why do I need to indulge your curiosity? How many verses are going to be enough for you to change your mind? One, five, 10? How about 20? Maybe 30? Would 50 be enough?

This is another thing that I really don't understand. You all are so adamant about how this doctrine is wrong, but you want to play these little games.

I have offered MANY times to send you study material and you can knock yourself out with your curiosity. I have even offered to have one-on-one conversations with you to which you have NEVER responded postively to.

Why must I indulge you now?

I'll make you a deal. If you'll post scripture showing Paul taught ME, I will write it down and not bother you with it again. Then I can study it out on my own.
Got paper and pencil ready.........

 

[J. Jump]

Okay I'll give you one Scripture to chew on.

I Corinthians 9:24-27 “Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”

Paul certainly thought it was a "real" possibility to be castaway in the future. So what is the danger he is referring to? This is another one of those warnings to "believers."

EDIT: Let me add this. I don't want you to "not bother me." I just want you to be genuinely sincere in your search and I don't mean any disrespect when I say this, but I have found that lacking from you, especially in this thread. You have seemed to take on more of the tone of the false accusers. And that I don't appreciate. But as long as you are sincere in your search and you want to take an honest look at Scripture I am always available.