So do you believe in Lordship salvation or Easy believisum or both? Please explain why or why not for your choice.
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Lordship salvation vs Easy believism
- Thread starter Jedi Knight
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It depends on what you mean by easy believeism. I believe a person is saved by trusting Jesus and Jesus alone to save them. You don't do any works to get saved, why would you have to do works to stay saved?
And I always chuckle when I hear folks call trusting Jesus alone as easy believeism. If it is so easy, then why can't they do it? :laugh:
That said, I don't think a person can just say a prayer and think themselves saved. You have to mean it, you have to be sincere. You have to see yourself as a sinner deserving of hell, and believe that Jesus died for you and rose from the dead. A person doesn't believe with the head, they believe with the heart.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
So, it has to be real, it has to be sincere and genuine.
And I always chuckle when I hear folks call trusting Jesus alone as easy believeism. If it is so easy, then why can't they do it? :laugh:
That said, I don't think a person can just say a prayer and think themselves saved. You have to mean it, you have to be sincere. You have to see yourself as a sinner deserving of hell, and believe that Jesus died for you and rose from the dead. A person doesn't believe with the head, they believe with the heart.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
So, it has to be real, it has to be sincere and genuine.
I don't how someone can have an encounter with God and not be changed to some degree. I don't make Jesus the Lord of my life. He IS the Lord of my life.
I just think Lordship salvation teaches that sanctification is a guarantee to the believer. Those whom God saves, he also changes.
I was like Jonah sinking to his death, seaweed wrapped on his legs and no possible hope or work. When God opened his heart/spiritual eyes he cried "Salvation is of the Lord".
The 1-2-3-pray-after-me ditty so oft promoted sans repentance to boost numbers and make the church look suceessful is finneyesque and demonic. It is a counterfeit to the Gospel. Only a fool would take one small part of "salvation" (belief/faith) and say "that is all there is". Eternal lunacy.
And millions feel good about themselves (I made a decision, I walked and aisle, I raised a hand, I prayed a prayer) and will until the judgment when their pseudo-religion will crush in on them.
I'm preaching tomorrow on such who talk about being saved (and use jargon like "Lord") but don't really mean it. And the tragic judgment awaiting.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. On that day most will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not preach in Your name, and cast out demons in Your name, and even do lots of spectacular deeds in Your name?’
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
The 1-2-3-pray-after-me ditty so oft promoted sans repentance to boost numbers and make the church look suceessful is finneyesque and demonic. It is a counterfeit to the Gospel. Only a fool would take one small part of "salvation" (belief/faith) and say "that is all there is". Eternal lunacy.
And millions feel good about themselves (I made a decision, I walked and aisle, I raised a hand, I prayed a prayer) and will until the judgment when their pseudo-religion will crush in on them.
I'm preaching tomorrow on such who talk about being saved (and use jargon like "Lord") but don't really mean it. And the tragic judgment awaiting.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. On that day most will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not preach in Your name, and cast out demons in Your name, and even do lots of spectacular deeds in Your name?’
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
"Easy Believeism" Meaning you just believe and nothing else "No Surrender Necessary" with believing in Jesus.
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Well, I believe when a person truly trusts Christ that the Holy Spirit comes into that person. You are going to be changed from within. I believe a person will have a sincere desire to obey God and hate sinning. Now, I sin all the time, but I hate it, I really do. I want to do right, and I believe this is the Holy Spirit dwelling within me. I am looking forward to the day I die so I can be rid of this sinful flesh once and for all.
It is Jesus that saves you, it is Jesus that changes you.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Being a Christian isn't so much about working or performing as it is letting Jesus have his way with you.
Tom Butler
New Member
I've heard more than one testimony that goes something like this:
"I accepted Jesus as my Savior and sometime later I accepted him as my Lord."
That doesn't seem consistent to me.
Paul told the Philippian jailer, "believe on the LORD Jesus Christ."
He also wrote to the Romans, "confess with your mouth that Jesus is LORD."
He also wrote "whoever will call on the name of the LORD will be saved."
Salvation that doesn't change isn't.
"I accepted Jesus as my Savior and sometime later I accepted him as my Lord."
That doesn't seem consistent to me.
Paul told the Philippian jailer, "believe on the LORD Jesus Christ."
He also wrote to the Romans, "confess with your mouth that Jesus is LORD."
He also wrote "whoever will call on the name of the LORD will be saved."
Salvation that doesn't change isn't.
I think the confusion is when people confuse salvation's root with salvation's fruit. I believe when someone is saved because they are willing to turn from self centered to Chrit's centered. At that moment they are born again and a new life change will indeed happen. If there is NO FRUIT then they are suspect of NO ROOT...meaning no Holy Spirit inside. To me "Easy Believism" focus is on "for by grace you have been saved" Lordship focus is on "unto good works which God prepared in advance for us to do". Ephesians 2:8-10 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
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I have always loved Psalms 1 and believe this describes the true Christian life.
Psa 1: Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Lots of folks, especially here in America want immediate results. But the scriptures describe the Christian life as a tree planted by the waters. The water is the word of God. A tree doesn't spring up overnight, it takes years to grow into a majestic tree.
If you stay in God's Word, that is the waters, you are going to grow. It isn't going to happen overnight, just as a tree doesn't spring up overnight. But if you stay in the Word and try to obey it, someday you will be a great tree.
Psa 1: Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Lots of folks, especially here in America want immediate results. But the scriptures describe the Christian life as a tree planted by the waters. The water is the word of God. A tree doesn't spring up overnight, it takes years to grow into a majestic tree.
If you stay in God's Word, that is the waters, you are going to grow. It isn't going to happen overnight, just as a tree doesn't spring up overnight. But if you stay in the Word and try to obey it, someday you will be a great tree.
It all depends on what your definition of the terms are. As I understand easy believism, it teaches that salvation is by faith without repentance. I hope I'm not constructing a straw man here, but that is what I have seen so far with those that advocate such a position. Many teach that all you have to do is pray some "magical" prayer and you are saved, then go back and do what you were doing. If Hitler prayed some prayer when he was 5 and then went on to be what he was, he would still be saved. Now, I believe that once a person is saved, they are saved. Our salvation is not Dependant on our works. And thats both salvation here(justification), and our ultimate salvation(glorification). Easy believism advocates teach that repentance is unnecessary in salvation.
http://www.gotquestions.org/lordship-salvation.html
Here was a good article about Lordship Salvation. It has a few good points
1. However, depending on the person and his circumstances, spiritual growth sometimes occurs quickly, and other times it takes a long time for changes to become evident, and even then the changes may not be evident to everyone.
2. Again, it cannot be denied that faith in Christ produces a change (2 Corinthians 5:17). A person who has been delivered from sin by faith in Christ should not desire to remain in a life of sin (Romans 6:2). At the same time, submitting to the Lordship of Jesus Christ is an issue of spiritual growth, not salvation.
http://www.gotquestions.org/lordship-salvation.html
Here was a good article about Lordship Salvation. It has a few good points
1. However, depending on the person and his circumstances, spiritual growth sometimes occurs quickly, and other times it takes a long time for changes to become evident, and even then the changes may not be evident to everyone.
2. Again, it cannot be denied that faith in Christ produces a change (2 Corinthians 5:17). A person who has been delivered from sin by faith in Christ should not desire to remain in a life of sin (Romans 6:2). At the same time, submitting to the Lordship of Jesus Christ is an issue of spiritual growth, not salvation.
I heard a calvinist once say against easy believism "Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it.". LOL
Well, it is men that make salvation difficult. What did Paul and Silas tell the Philipian jailer when he asked how to be saved?
Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Did Paul tell the Philipian jailer he had to turn from all sin from that day forward? No. He simply told him he must believe upon Jesus. To believe upon Jesus simply means to realize you cannot save yourself through any good works and turn to Jesus and rely upon him only to save you. It is really that simple. And it is really that easy. In fact, it is the easiest thing possible, you do not have to do any work whatsoever, just place your life in Jesus's hands.
But a person does have to be sincere. If you really do not believe yourself a sinner in danger of perishing, you are not truly going to go to Jesus in your heart for forgiveness.
I was told by a person in ministry in my church only 2 weeks ago, he said to me, we are just like everyone else "only forgiven"... I choked. If being a christian has little difference to being a non christian something is wrong and the chances are they are not a christian at all.
Everything I read about in the NT, relating to the new life in Christ means a radical change in a person's life. This change may not be as drastic for everyone but a new convert to Christ is a changed life. If they are not sensitive to their own sins and compelled to repent of things they know are wrong, then the absence of conviction is another sign that something is missing. As Peter said, "depart from me Lord for I am a sinful man."
I am against the quick prayer conversions, they tend to focus on methodology instead of Christ drawing the sinner to Himself. Many times if a person has to be strongly convinced to pray a prayer to be "saved" chances are they will not be truly converted at that time anyway, as if this salvation thing is in our hands to do if we can just get someone guilty enough at that time they will be scared enough to pray a quick prayer without any spiritual sparks flying, without the Holy Spirit's direction and direct interaction.
Darren
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I disagree, I think what your not pointing out is the word LORD there. When Paul said "believe on the LORD Jesus Christ" the jailer knew what he ment......it needed very little explanation. Today the focus is on Jesus as savior,finacial advisor,happy life here,and marriage councelor......but not Lord. I think men have made the door to salvation alot wider than it is suppose to be.
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Yes, it does say Lord, and to be saved you must believe Jesus is the Son of God. But all he told the Philipian jailer he must do is trust on him.
Go to Acts, what did Peter tell the Jews?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter told these Jews they must repent, that is, turn from unbelief and trust Jesus for the remission of sins. He did not tell them they must quit sinning to be saved.
If we must quit sinning to be saved, we are all in a lot of trouble. It only takes one sin.
Lots of folks misunderstand sin. They think it is like a balance or scale. If you do more good than sin, you go to heaven, if you sin more than do good, you go to hell. But that is not how sin works at all.
Let's say you are a good citizen all your life. Then one day you go into a bank with a gun and rob it. You are caught and brought before a judge. You tell the judge that you have always been a good citizen, and that this is the one and only time you have ever broken the law. You have done far more good than evil, therefore the judge should let you go.
Is that how the law works? Of course not. Even if this is the only crime you have ever committed, you must pay the penalty and go to jail.
This shows that Lordship salvation can never work. Even if you try your very best to always be obedient to Jesus, sooner or later you will sin, and sin must be paid for.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
So, if you want to spend all your time trying to obey the law you can, but you are just spinning your wheels. Sooner or later you will sin and then you will be guilty of breaking all the law.
The scriptures say we are God's workmanship. It is Jesus that saves you, and it is Jesus that changes you. However, we still have the sinful flesh which wars against the Spirit. Our success in overcoming sin is by beating the flesh under and submitting to the Spirit.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
This verse has to be speaking of believers, because unbelievers do not have the Spirit. So there is a war going on within us between the flesh and the Spirit. Even Paul spoke of this battle going on within him.
You know, we are our own worst enemies. We think it is hard to live the Christian life. We go wrong right there. One day this verse really hit me.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
The ol' devil lies to us and tells us it is hard to be good. But the scriptures say it is not. I thought about this verse one day and realized how the devil had deceived us and discouraged us. If you believe that obeying God's Word is difficult, you are going to get discouraged and give up before you have even begun. That ol' devil is slick!
No, all we have to do is do what Jesus tells us, what is hard about that? Is it hard to tell the truth? Is it hard to be honest? Is it really hard to keep your eyes off other women besides your wife? Not really. Obeying Jesus is actually very easy, he doesn't give us difficult things to do.
But the ol' devil knows how to discourage us so that we give up before we even try.
Robert Snow
New Member
Wow, tell us how your really feel.
Are you the same person who, when someone says something negative about Covenant Theology, threatens to ban them? Sounds like you consider yourself the "decider" of what point of view is allowed!
As admin, I use my almost godlike super-powers most often for good.
(Seriously, you have me confused. Remember, I'm progressive dispensational so say a lot of negative about some of the aspects of covenant theology.
And if you notice, the op was given and I shared very clearly my position of utmost animosity toward the false gospel being spouted by some. Didn't say they could not post. Didn't ban anyone or threaten.)
You are waaaaay off base. But I'll forgive you . . . or maybe ban you. :tonofbricks:
This is the result of the "sinner's prayer" and easy believism...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jQsGlS0sQ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jQsGlS0sQ4
Robert Snow
New Member
I consider myself a dispensationalist also. I don't know what a progressive dispensationalist is? It sounds intriguing, what is the difference?
I actually appreciate someone who leaves no doubt as to where they stand.
Sometimes I have difficulty even finding the base, so being picked off occasionally is part of the bargain.
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