Lordship Salvation

Depends what the "must" is. Some people seem to think it is perfectly OK to say a prayer and carry on exactly like they did before. it isn't.

Liz

 

There is no fight going on here.
If we were figiting, we would define our terms,
divide up into sides and go after it.

Nobody yet has defined what someobody else
thinks "Lordship Salvation" might be.

Offhand, if you put MY definition to it,
it is a good thing.

Lorship Salvation - The Salvation of God
received by the Daily Making of Jesus the
Lord of my Life.

Hense Jesus is not only Lord but Savior as well.


Loving2daysyouth: " Absolutely. BUT, is that
a requirement for salvation?? Please use Scriptures "

I believe that the making of Jesus Lord of your
life is NOT a requirement for Salvation
but making Jesus Lord of your life is
a result of Salvation.
I belive that good works (and making Jesus
Lord of your life each dayis a good work)
is NOT a requirement for Salvation but
good works are a result of Salvation.

Check the scriptures and see. Everything that
some think is a PREREQUISITE for Salvation
is a result of Salvation. Jesus Saves,
not we ourselves. We can discuss scripture
by scripture - if perchance there are any here
who don't believe that JESUS SAVES and we should
act like JESUS SAVED US, if Jesus Saved us.

Praise Jesus
Amen!

 

Depends what the "must" is. Some people seem to think it is perfectly OK to say a prayer and carry on exactly like they did before. it isn't.

Liz </font>[/QUOTE]Agree it isn’t, but not “Depends what the “must” is. There are no musts in our salvation beyond believing on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Ituttut

 

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Matthew 8:29. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Mark 1:24. Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Mark 5:7. And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Luke 4:34. Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.
Acts 19:15. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

 

Here are ten people I know who would claim absolutely that they believe in Jesus.

One believes no-one is going to hell

Another believes Islam is not contrary to scripture.

A third believes that hell is nothing more than separation from God.

A fourth believes in re-incarnation.

Two more believe that the dead can speak to people, and they prove this by saying that their dead relatives visited them. One of these also beleives that Jesus came to visit the native Americans, that those who believe the Bible are bigots and that sex before marriage, abortion, and homosexual marriage are all perfectly OK. The other is a Wiccan in all but name and believes that when Jesus rose from the dead he was born again.

Number seven believes in re-incarnation. Number eight and nine believe that sex before marriage is fine and call Bible believers names. Number ten believes in abortion and accuses me of worshipping the Bible.

Then there is the self-proclaimed witch who says vehemently that she loves Jesus. Of course she believes he is only one of many deities.

I was on the counselling team at one of the Billy Graham rallies in the mid 1980s. We had to write follow-up letters to those we had counselled. One of the women I counselled wrote me a nasty letter back asking how dare I tell anyone they had to read the Bible? Was SHE saved? She said the words ....

Jesus once had many disciples (that is the Biblical term used for them) turn round and desert him in one day. He let the rich young ruler walk away because the young man preferred money to the cost of following Christ. What church would turn that man away today? He'd be on the diaconate if not in the pulpit, wouldn't he? If Jesus didn't MEAN that one should count the cost before following Him, then what DID he mean?

Liz

 

Thank you, Sister Liz Ward, for sharing your
pray-for-salvation list. We support you in praying
the lost persons on your list.

Here is the right way to read Romans 10:9 (KJV1769):
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God
hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.

Here is the same in a modern version where real Lordship
Salvation (not the phony kind) is clearly specified:

Romans 10:9 (HCSB = The Holman Christian Standard Bible):
if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead,
you will be saved.

To add to this verse is WRONG. Yet i see some that want
to read the verse as:

1. if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead,
and don't believe in universalism,
then you will be saved.

Sorry, but Universalists (everybody will be saved) are wrong,
but they can be saved //if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead,
you will be saved.//

2. if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead,
and NOT believe that Islam is wrong
you will be saved.

3. if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead,
and pass the orthodoxy test about 'hell'
you will be saved.

4. if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead,
and NEVER believe in reincarnation
you will be saved.

5. if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead,
and NEVER talk to the dead
you will be saved.

6. if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead,
and never, never, ever get mired in the Reorganized
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Inc.,
you will be saved.

I think i've put enough. The simple truth of salvation,
Lordship Salvation (as i define it),
is simple for humans
(but costly for Jesus who had to sacrifice His life):
if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead,
you will be saved.

Believing stupid stuff in addition to what saves
does not invalidate the salvation. Jesus saves, our beliefs
do NOT save us.

 

The Catholics would have no problem at all with confessing that Jesus is Lord and believing that God raised Him from the dead and neither would the JWs (except that they would insist that the resurrection was spiritual not physical) or, probably, the Mormons. Are you prepared to accept that all those are saved? I am not.

I agree that it is possible to believe strange things, especially if one has been badly taught or not taught at all, and still be saved. It is the refusal to accept the word of God that settles the issue for me. Of the people I listed, not one has been prepared to say "Oh! I didn't realise the Bible said that! I need to go home and think about this!"

If someone who believes something that is clearly erroneous IS prepared to say "I will change my view if you can show me where I am wrong according to the scriptures" - without starting on about "that's your interpretation" or "you worship a book", then I am absolutely prepared to accept that the person concerned is saved. I am not prepared to accept that it is possible for a regenerate person to consistently put ones own feelings or pet beliefs above the revealed word of God.

Liz

 

Liz Ward

Romans 10:9 from the KJV [1769] is a wonderful passage of Scripture and is perfectly true.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It is true that the new believer is a disciple, a learner, and may be subject to beliefs that are not true. However, one who has been truely saved must understand that Romans 10:9 is not the sum-total of Scripture. There is a wealth of information in the Bible that instructs the "true Believer".

Jesus Christ told us before His death:

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Now the Comforter is the Holy Spirit who indwells all those who have been truely saved. Jesus Christ tells us that the Holy Spirit shall teach you all things. Elsewhere Jesus Christ tells us:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 8:32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

It is possible that one who has just experienced the New Birth may believe some things that are not true. However, if we are to believe Scripture they will not continue to believe that which is clearly false doctrine. You listed a number of false beliefs in your post. I am not going to attempt to tell you which of these a "true believer" must reject. That is something you must decide fro yourself. However, if one is a true believer he will come to acknowledge the following truths:

1. Jesus Christ is God the Son; He is fully human and fully divine [2 John 7-10; John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9].

2. Salvation is only through Jesus Christ [John 14:6, Acts 4:12]

3. Jesus Christ was born of a virgin [Luke 1:26-35].

4. Jesus Christ lived a sinless life [2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 3:18; 1 Peter 2:2; 1 john 3:5].

5. Jesus Christ is Lord [Acts 2:36; Acts 10:36].

There are others but that is a start. A comparison of these truths with the false beliefs listed in your post may be beneficial.

 

Liz

I was just thinking about posting another note to you related to the above statement. As you note above, when a person is saved it is a supernatural act in which God makes the one who was dead in trespass and sin spiritually alive [Ephesians 2:1-10]. They are a new creation in Jesus Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 6:15. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

I also am not prepared to accept that it is possible for a regenerate person to consistently put ones own feelings or pet beliefs above the revealed word of God.

 

[/qb] We are sinners, capable of being reconciled to God. Satan and those that followed Satan are not men such as we. All those created beings of God have already been judged. They have no hope. Wouldn’t you be trembling knowing what lies ahead? The Matthew 8:29 ”…….art thou come hither to torment us before the time” tells they know their destination. They have no recourse. Those verses are put there for our benefit and understanding. If we don’t believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation then we follow Satan and his followers to our doom.

As for your Acts 19:15 reference, I don’t care if evil spirits know who I am. These are not my buddies, and I try to keep my distance. All we need to understand is Christ knows our name, and we will answer when He calls us to be with Him in our new bodies. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12.

 

Liz

I was just thinking about posting another note to you related to the above statement. As you note above, when a person is saved it is a supernatural act in which God makes the one who was dead in trespass and sin spiritually alive [Ephesians 2:1-10]. They are a new creation in Jesus Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 6:15. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

I also am not prepared to accept that it is possible for a regenerate person to consistently put ones own feelings or pet beliefs above the revealed word of God. </font>[/QUOTE]Why do we qualify statements like this with 'consistently' or say things like 'a true believer won't continue in sin'. The bible says plainly that whosoever is born of God sinneth not. So who is putting pet beliefs above the revealed word of God? If you truly believe there is a line somewhere that a person cannot cross if he is a believer, show it from scripture. Otherwise, are we not adding to scripture if we say:
1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not (consistently); but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not (continually).

 

===

Would you agree that a regenerate person may consistently and authoritatively insist that his/her pet beliefs are the revealed Word of God, that his/her interpretations are essentially the precise meanings of the Biblical writers, when they may not at all be, and that such a one may also consistently and dogmatically assert that all beliefs contrary to his/hers, even if held by very devoted and scholarly Christians who connect their opinions to Scripture, are not Scriptural at all and even are heretical ?

 

Such beliefs would at least be based upon the word of God. The ones I am thinking about come from Eastern religions or the person's own head.

Liz

 

Here is how Catholics get saved:

Romans 10:9 (The Douay-Rheims Bible):
For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus
and believe in thy heart that God
hath raised him up from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.

Here is how Jehovah's Witnesses get saved:

Romans 10:9 (New World Translation):
For if you publicly declare that word in your own mouth
that Jesus is LOrd, and exercise faith in your
heart that God raised him up from the dead,
you will be saved.

Here is how Southern Baptists get saved:

Romans 10:9 (HCSB = The Holman Christian Standard Bible):
if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead,
you will be saved.

Here is how IFBs and Mormons get saved:

Romans 10:9 (KJV1769):
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God
hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.

This is how 17th Century Anglicans got saved:

Romans 10:9 (KJV1611):
That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth the Lord Iesus,
and shalt beleeue in thine heart, that God
hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saued.

Note that the only people who get saved are those
who first make Jesus their Lord.

Of course, i guess that Catholics might miss out on salvation
if they spend all their time doing mass and confession.
Of course, i guess that Mormons might miss out on
salvation if they forget to make Jesus their Lord and
eagerly await their being the Lord of another planet.
Of course, i guess IFBs might forget to make Jesus their
Lord while they spend all their time trying to decipher
1769 English.
Etc.

 

===

Would you agree that a regenerate person may consistently and authoritatively insist that his/her pet beliefs are the revealed Word of God, that his/her interpretations are essentially the precise meanings of the Biblical writers, when they may not at all be, and that such a one may also consistently and dogmatically assert that all beliefs contrary to his/hers, even if held by very devoted and scholarly Christians who connect their opinions to Scripture, are not Scriptural at all and even are heretical ? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]They do it whether I agree with it or not. However, I believe there are certain essential doctrines which all "true believer" must come to accept.

 

Liz

I was just thinking about posting another note to you related to the above statement. As you note above, when a person is saved it is a supernatural act in which God makes the one who was dead in trespass and sin spiritually alive [Ephesians 2:1-10]. They are a new creation in Jesus Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 6:15. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

I also am not prepared to accept that it is possible for a regenerate person to consistently put ones own feelings or pet beliefs above the revealed word of God. </font>[/QUOTE]Why do we qualify statements like this with 'consistently' or say things like 'a true believer won't continue in sin'. The bible says plainly that whosoever is born of God sinneth not. So who is putting pet beliefs above the revealed word of God? If you truly believe there is a line somewhere that a person cannot cross if he is a believer, show it from scripture. Otherwise, are we not adding to scripture if we say:
1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not (consistently); but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not (continually). </font>[/QUOTE]Are you advocating sinless perfection?

 

Here are ten people I know who would claim absolutely that they believe in Jesus.

One believes no-one is going to hell

Hi Liz. I’ll not accuse you of judging, but it is coming awfully close. Is Billy Graham saved? I don’t know, but would say yes, even though he is not sure himself. Is Donald Trump? To me I don’t believe so, and haven’t heard him say, but who really knows.

People can say all day long they believe Jesus Christ, and perhaps they do intellectually, but it must be of the heart. Would not wish to judge where these will end up, but if they get to heaven they won’t care, and if to hell they’ll know they were wrong.

Another believes Islam is not contrary to scripture.

But do they also believe that believing on the name of the Lord Jesus they will be saved?

A third believes that hell is nothing more than separation from God.

It is a separation from God, and these know they will never be separated from Him. This to me is salvation, as we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Separation from God is hell.

A fourth believes in re-incarnation.

Weird, but again, does this one believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation?

Two more believe that the dead can speak to people, and they prove this by saying that their dead relatives visited them. One of these also beleives that Jesus came to visit the native Americans, that those who believe the Bible are bigots and that sex before marriage, abortion, and homosexual marriage are all perfectly OK. The other is a Wiccan in all but name and believes that when Jesus rose from the dead he was born again.

These people are really in trouble if they don’t believe that Jesus Christ can save them, and don’t accept the free gift.

Number seven believes in re-incarnation. Number eight and nine believe that sex before marriage is fine and call Bible believers names. Number ten believes in abortion and accuses me of worshipping the Bible.

As sexual intercourse between a man and a woman is what constitutes marriage, it is impossible to have sex before marriage.

Some that believe in abortion can be saved, as they are sinners just like you and me. You and I have sinned, are sinning, and will sin; yet we are dead to sins in Christ Jesus. These bodies and minds are bombarded daily by Satan’s arrows, but our spirit and soul have been made righteous in Him, and we are already seated in heaven. As long as we are in these sinful bodies, sin is going to occur, but all of our sins are no more.

Until God shows someone that abortion is wrong, that person is not willfully sinning. We in the Body of Christ will just have to wait and let Him take care of all these matters, either at our awards ceremony, or that Great White Throne judgment.

Then there is the self-proclaimed witch who says vehemently that she loves Jesus. Of course she believes he is only one of many deities.

We need to be happy, loving, and forgiving Christians whenever possible. But when witches or other idol worshippers, whether in or out of a church, are known, we do not judge but we know they cannot worship two God’s. As long you stand for Your Savior, and Your Christian life is before her, perhaps it could influence her. We never know, so leaving these things in His hands, praying that His will be done in that other persons life is really all we can do.

You and I are Christians and can debate, but all we can do with the unsaved is to tell them about salvation, which is believe on the name of Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Endeavor to add anything to that, even saying they need to get to a church belittles what Christ did for us. He did all of the work, and by the grace of God through the faith of Jesus Christ we are saved, not by anything we do . We can never let preachers or churches make us feel guilty of not doing enough works. We are born to good works, and we will do what He puts in our hearts to do. And we give as we prosper, what we wish, and to what causes we wish to give to; not by edict or command.

I was on the counselling team at one of the Billy Graham rallies in the mid 1980s. We had to write follow-up letters to those we had counselled. One of the women I counselled wrote me a nasty letter back asking how dare I tell anyone they had to read the Bible? Was SHE saved? She said the words ....

I have already mentioned Billy Graham above, but this is a strange comment from the woman you counseled. She may regret this remark later on, but perhaps she wishes to remain a “babe in Christ”. If she believes Jesus Christ saved her, I hope He did. That is all it takes to be in the Body of Christ, as repentance and remission of sins is instantaneous, all wrapped up in believing on the name of Christ Jesus for our salvation.

If what you wrote her read she must read the bible to continue to be saved, or show that she was saved, then I would have told you the same thing. We don’t have to anything after we are saved, but we always do. After we are saved, we are to do as Paul says, and that is work out our own salvation, Philippians 2:12.[/I]

Jesus once had many disciples (that is the Biblical term used for them) turn round and desert him in one day. He let the rich young ruler walk away because the young man preferred money to the cost of following Christ. What church would turn that man away today? He'd be on the diaconate if not in the pulpit, wouldn't he? If Jesus didn't MEAN that one should count the cost before following Him, then what DID he mean?

Liz </font>[/QUOTE]Can't ignore what you say, but we must realize Jesus is talking only to His people at that time, for He plainly says He came only for His people, the nation of Israel.

Perhaps if you answer one question, it may show which gospel you believe. Do you believe Christ Jesus spoke to Paul from Heaven? If you answer “why of course”, then what you are to believe is Acts 16:28-31, ” But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. 29. Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30. And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” For those that will be raptured, and be of the heavenlies, this is what they must believe.

Or, for those that wish to go through the tribulation and enter the kingdom on earth, then they will believe Acts 2:37-39, ” Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”

However, I believe today there is only one gospel, as the other gospel of the kingdom was only preached to the Jew for they have been promised the earth. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12

 

Liz

I was just thinking about posting another note to you related to the above statement. As you note above, when a person is saved it is a supernatural act in which God makes the one who was dead in trespass and sin spiritually alive [Ephesians 2:1-10]. They are a new creation in Jesus Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 6:15. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

I also am not prepared to accept that it is possible for a regenerate person to consistently put ones own feelings or pet beliefs above the revealed word of God. </font>[/QUOTE]Why do we qualify statements like this with 'consistently' or say things like 'a true believer won't continue in sin'. The bible says plainly that whosoever is born of God sinneth not. So who is putting pet beliefs above the revealed word of God? If you truly believe there is a line somewhere that a person cannot cross if he is a believer, show it from scripture. Otherwise, are we not adding to scripture if we say:
1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not (consistently); but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not (continually). </font>[/QUOTE]Are you advocating sinless perfection? </font>[/QUOTE]I'm advocating a theology that does not require us to put words in the Lord's mouth for Him. If the Bible says a man can keep himself from sin, I believe it. I'm not saying that I am that man. I am saying that I cannot discount the word of God merely because I don't think such a thing likely. But the proponents of lordship salvation maintain that a certain amount of adherence to the Lord's commandments will accompany 'true' or 'saving' faith. If we are to presume that being 'born of God' means the same thing as being raised up on the last day because of faith in the Lord, then our standards are not up to God's standards.

1 John 3:6-9
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

If a man sins, clearly he is not abiding in Christ. Clearly he is not 'born of God' in the sense that this scripture is referring to. If this is talking about being saved in eternity, then we need to go get in a boat with CraigByTheSea, row out a couple of miles, repent REAL good, then hope a whale swallows us before we can sin again. If salvation is of grace, and not of works, then this is talking about something other than our eternal status, which I am convinced was secured by Christ when He died on the cross, not by me making Him Lord of my life. Christ is Lord of all, whether I like it or not.

You have to distinguish between the gift and the prize, or you have to change what the bible says.

 

You're now sounding rather like the usual type of lost person I find on the internet - and like the ones I mentioned who don't seem to believe anyone is going to hell. We MUST judge in order to know how to deal with people. We must not use hypocritical judgment.

At the risk of sounding like an Arminian, we are told very clearly to warn the wicked about their wrongdoing. If you don't want to judge anyone then how can we do that?

But do they also believe that believing on the name of the Lord Jesus they will be saved?</font>[/QUOTE]Yes, but apparently they believe Muslims can be saved too. At least, such is the inevitable conclusion one must reach if one believes that Islam is not contrary to scripture.

It is a separation from God, and these know they will never be separated from Him. This to me is salvation, as we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Separation from God is hell.</font>[/QUOTE]Quite what sort of a punishment separation from God is, to those who hate God, I am not sure. it seems to me rather like a case of God giving people what they want.

Weird, but again, does this one believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation? </font>[/QUOTE]Do you REALLY believe the two beliefs are compatible? So the options at the end of life are heaven, hell, or go round and try again? You REALLY believe a saved person can believe such a thing?

These people are really in trouble if they don’t believe that Jesus Christ can save them, and don’t accept the free gift. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree, but why do you regard these particular beliefs as incompatible with salvation and belief in reincarnation as compatible with salvation?

If that is the case then the people concerned are each married to several other people. I know one can make a case for multiple wives from the Bible (if one ignores the New Testament) but I have never heard a case made for multiple husbands. Do feel free to enlighten me. If you believe that the first sexual intercourse equals marriage, then the people concerned are in fact adulterers, which isn't really any better, is it?

Alas, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

in the ten cases I mentioned, I would be telling them to do something they have already done. They must have done it, they said the prayer ....

The answer is much simpler than that. Like perhaps 97% of those who go forward at such an event, she was never saved at all.

Nothing of the sort.

Yes, and if we don't, that is proof positive that we were never saved at all.

I don't believe in dispensationalising away inconvenient verses of scripture, sorry.

Liz

 

===

Would you agree that a regenerate person may consistently and authoritatively insist that his/her pet beliefs are the revealed Word of God, that his/her interpretations are essentially the precise meanings of the Biblical writers, when they may not at all be, and that such a one may also consistently and dogmatically assert that all beliefs contrary to his/hers, even if held by very devoted and scholarly Christians who connect their opinions to Scripture, are not Scriptural at all and even are heretical ? </font>[/QUOTE]They do it whether I agree with it or not. However, I believe there are certain essential doctrines which all "true believer" must come to accept. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]===


I agree with the need for essential doctrines.

I guess if your "they" = my "regenerate person," then your answer to my question is yes.

You are saying, then, that a saved Christian for years, for a lifetime, can put his/her "pet beliefs above the revealed word of God" , and even claim that those beliefs are "essentials" to the true Faith, and that others, therefore, who question his/her pet beliefs are heretics, as long as he/she adheres to what are the true "essentials"?

A regenerated person could really be that wrong for a lifetime?