R
RightFromWrong
Guest
KJ wrote
Right On
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Losing one's salvation
- Thread starter chickenlady
- Start date
Plain Old Bill
New Member
I've always wanted to ask this question,if I were able to lose my salvation,where would I lose it?
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
Good one I am blessed 16.
Notice the FATHER in the story RAN TO his son. he didn't wait, he didn't condem him, he didn't say you have to earn my love, he didn't say anything that would indicate anything against his son. He showed him UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. he showed him no matter what his son did he was still part of his family.
The picture of God running to us shows how he DREW us in the first place. God called us to be his he didn't wait till we got our " act " together he didn't wait till I was interested in him, all our salvation is because of what GOD has done and nothing of what we have done. ITS ALL ABOUT GOD he gets all the GLORY and PRAISE !
AMEN !
Notice the FATHER in the story RAN TO his son. he didn't wait, he didn't condem him, he didn't say you have to earn my love, he didn't say anything that would indicate anything against his son. He showed him UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. he showed him no matter what his son did he was still part of his family.
The picture of God running to us shows how he DREW us in the first place. God called us to be his he didn't wait till we got our " act " together he didn't wait till I was interested in him, all our salvation is because of what GOD has done and nothing of what we have done. ITS ALL ABOUT GOD he gets all the GLORY and PRAISE !
AMEN !
O
OCC
Guest
Thank you RTF...it's nice to get a little bit of encouragement sometimes...when most people seem to be against me. Keep up the good fight.
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
Our salvation is the complete work of God he DID EVERYTHING.
He CHOSE us before the foundations of the world
Eph 1:4, 2 Thes 2:13, John 15:19, 1 Pet.1:20, 1 Pet 2:9 and so many more.
He DREW us unto himself.
John 6:44, John 12:32, To name a few.
He KEEPS us till the end.
Eph. 4:30, 1 Cor 1:8, Jude 24, To name a few.
If we can walk away from God then he is a liar and his promises and words are not true. RIGHT !
If these WORDS and what they mean do not prove assurance of Salvation I do not what else can !
NOTHING
ETERNAL LIFE
PREDESTINED
SECURITY
ASSURANCE
SALVATION
FORGIVENESS
SAVED
ADOPTION
JOINT HEIRS
REDEMPTION
JUSTIFIED
GLORIFIED
SEALED
GRACE
MERCY
SANCTIFIED
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After looking up all those words what is the conclusion of what Christ did for me ?
He chose me before the foundation of the world
NOT ME
He redemmed me from Hell
NOT ME
He chose me to be adopted into his family
NOT ME
He forgave me of all my sins forever
NOT BASED ON ME
He gave me life everlasting
NOT ME
He sanctified me by the shedding of his blood
NOT MINE
He sealed me with his stamp of approval ( Holy Spirit )
NOT MINE
He glorified me by his RIGHTEOUSNESS
NOT MY OWN
He assured me that he is forever faithful, true & is not a liar
I AM NOT TO BE TRUSTED BUT HE IS
He secured me with the Holy Spirit
NOT MY WILL OR FLESH
He Justified me through his sacrifice into a right relationship with God
JUST AS IF I HAD NEVER SINNED
And so on and so on
The only thing we are responsible for is to respond to God both in receiving Christ and after in yielding to his will. That is our responsiblity.
Gods responsibilty is to remain True and Faithful
He CHOSE us before the foundations of the world
Eph 1:4, 2 Thes 2:13, John 15:19, 1 Pet.1:20, 1 Pet 2:9 and so many more.
He DREW us unto himself.
John 6:44, John 12:32, To name a few.
He KEEPS us till the end.
Eph. 4:30, 1 Cor 1:8, Jude 24, To name a few.
If we can walk away from God then he is a liar and his promises and words are not true. RIGHT !
If these WORDS and what they mean do not prove assurance of Salvation I do not what else can !
NOTHING
ETERNAL LIFE
PREDESTINED
SECURITY
ASSURANCE
SALVATION
FORGIVENESS
SAVED
ADOPTION
JOINT HEIRS
REDEMPTION
JUSTIFIED
GLORIFIED
SEALED
GRACE
MERCY
SANCTIFIED
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After looking up all those words what is the conclusion of what Christ did for me ?
He chose me before the foundation of the world
NOT ME
He redemmed me from Hell
NOT ME
He chose me to be adopted into his family
NOT ME
He forgave me of all my sins forever
NOT BASED ON ME
He gave me life everlasting
NOT ME
He sanctified me by the shedding of his blood
NOT MINE
He sealed me with his stamp of approval ( Holy Spirit )
NOT MINE
He glorified me by his RIGHTEOUSNESS
NOT MY OWN
He assured me that he is forever faithful, true & is not a liar
I AM NOT TO BE TRUSTED BUT HE IS
He secured me with the Holy Spirit
NOT MY WILL OR FLESH
He Justified me through his sacrifice into a right relationship with God
JUST AS IF I HAD NEVER SINNED
And so on and so on
The only thing we are responsible for is to respond to God both in receiving Christ and after in yielding to his will. That is our responsiblity.
Gods responsibilty is to remain True and Faithful
I think I'm done here for now (I'm not in the mood for where this discussion usually leads), but just to clarify:
Squire said:
I mentioned verse 13, not 18 - I think 18 was your typo. Verse 13 says: They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Squire said:
Can you explain what "a CAT2 truth" means?
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
You are right my typo sorry.
Still if anything falls on a rock it cannot take root can it ? Many people intelectually and emotionally respond to Gods word back then and even today. It is the one who puts their FAITH ( which means commits or intrusts ones self over to something ) that is really saved.
You can believe all you want that a chair will hold you up or if you jump off a bungy jump that it will not break. But until you actually put your FAITH and TRUST by sitting or jumping, all you have is what Jesus said the first three guys ( sowers ) had, emotional and intellectual FAITH.
Still if anything falls on a rock it cannot take root can it ? Many people intelectually and emotionally respond to Gods word back then and even today. It is the one who puts their FAITH ( which means commits or intrusts ones self over to something ) that is really saved.
You can believe all you want that a chair will hold you up or if you jump off a bungy jump that it will not break. But until you actually put your FAITH and TRUST by sitting or jumping, all you have is what Jesus said the first three guys ( sowers ) had, emotional and intellectual FAITH.
I look at it like this: Jesus is our Good Shepherd.
Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Just imagine a shepherd watching a flock of sheep. Sheep can be lost several ways. A lion or wolf can attack them. But Jesus will protect us.
But a sheep can wander off on it's own. Perhaps it sees a nice pool of water, or some nice green clover on a hill far away. And I am sure in real life that sheep do wander from the flock for reasons like this.
And this is like a Christian being drawn away into the world. Sometimes it does happen.
But don't worry. We have Jesus the good shepherd. He will not allow us to wander off and get lost. He may have to strike us with his rod or staff to make us rejoin the flock, but he will bring us back.
Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Just imagine a shepherd watching a flock of sheep. Sheep can be lost several ways. A lion or wolf can attack them. But Jesus will protect us.
But a sheep can wander off on it's own. Perhaps it sees a nice pool of water, or some nice green clover on a hill far away. And I am sure in real life that sheep do wander from the flock for reasons like this.
And this is like a Christian being drawn away into the world. Sometimes it does happen.
But don't worry. We have Jesus the good shepherd. He will not allow us to wander off and get lost. He may have to strike us with his rod or staff to make us rejoin the flock, but he will bring us back.
Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
ccrobinson
Active Member
natters, haven't we been here before?
In order to prove Eternal Security is false, you have to change the meaning of words and phrases like "eternal" and "born again". I don't think the marriage analogy works in the matter of salvation, mostly because nobody is born into a marriage. I don't think that God compares salvation to a marriage, but I'll allow that I don't know that for certain.
Regardless, this is ground we've traveled before and I don't think we got anywhere then, so I don't have much more to add to debate than has already been said.
In order to prove Eternal Security is false, you have to change the meaning of words and phrases like "eternal" and "born again". I don't think the marriage analogy works in the matter of salvation, mostly because nobody is born into a marriage. I don't think that God compares salvation to a marriage, but I'll allow that I don't know that for certain.
Regardless, this is ground we've traveled before and I don't think we got anywhere then, so I don't have much more to add to debate than has already been said.
A marriage is a covenant. It is entered by two parties. Its participants become "one flesh". Its duration is "till death do we part".
Salvation is a covenant. It is entered by two parties (God and man). The human participant is "born again". Its duration is "eternal".
That's how I see it, anyway.
Salvation is a covenant. It is entered by two parties (God and man). The human participant is "born again". Its duration is "eternal".
That's how I see it, anyway.
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
Salvation is not a 2 party covenant Please show SCRIPTURE to prove this point ?
Like I mentioned before every aspect of salvation had to do with God and nothing about you. He CHOSE you , He DRAWS you, and he KEEPS you. YOU Had nothing to do with any of it even "accepting" wouldn't be possible if he didn't chose you and draw you !
Why is this so hard for you to understand ?
Like I mentioned before every aspect of salvation had to do with God and nothing about you. He CHOSE you , He DRAWS you, and he KEEPS you. YOU Had nothing to do with any of it even "accepting" wouldn't be possible if he didn't chose you and draw you !
Why is this so hard for you to understand ?
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
So what about ETERNAL do you not understand ?
I have already given scripture. John 3:16, Rom 10:9, etc., etc., etc. He is responsible for making the covenant possible, but he doesn't do everything, and the covenant isn't binding until both sides enter into it: men are not saved until they meet their side of the covenant - believing. God does a lot, but God doesn't believe for us to establish the covenant, that's our part.
So what about ETERNAL do you not understand ? </font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps my point was too subtle. I understand "eternal" just fine. A marriage covenant also has a duration - "till death" - yet once the covenant itself has been broken, the duration no longer applies. All covenants work this way - the benefits and outcomes of the covenant remain intact only as long as the covenant itself remains intact.
Edit: in other words, your question is like "So what part of "till death do you part" do you not understand?" - yet marriages sometimes end before death despite the duration stated at the establishment of the covenant.
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
There's only one major problem with " your " belief with using those scripture verses to say we are in a covenant.
NO where in those verses does GOD say he was making a covenant with anyone. Jesus was giving a Parable which is a STORY that illustrates a TRUTH !
You need to find a clear scripture that says God made a CONDITIONAL covenant in regards to SALVATION.
Obviously you never read this link I gave earlier. http://tinyurl.com/cjy86
NO where in those verses does GOD say he was making a covenant with anyone. Jesus was giving a Parable which is a STORY that illustrates a TRUTH !
You need to find a clear scripture that says God made a CONDITIONAL covenant in regards to SALVATION.
Obviously you never read this link I gave earlier. http://tinyurl.com/cjy86
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
MOST of the time they end before death. Which proves my point even further. You are trying to bring God down to a human level of understanding. God's ways are not our ways, neither his thoughts our thoughts.
People get married because they love EACH other. Most of the time anyway.
GOD LOVED us even while we were yet sinners. We did not LOVE him we were enemies of God. It wasn't till after Salvation are we even able to love God in anyway shape or form. GOD GOD GOD All GOD !
ITS ALL ABOUT GOD NOTHING ABOUT US PERIOD
The entire "New Testament" is named so because of the "New Covenant". They are two words for the same thing. The entire New Testament speaks of the covenant. The Lord's Supper is to remember the covenant, etc.
Don't you need to find a clear scripture that says it is UNconditional?
I have already posted scriptures about men being cut off of the vine and cast into the fire, about men who believed ending their belief and falling away, about men who escape the bondage of sin and are later entangled therein. Another one I haven't mentioned yet is Heb 10:29, which talks of the one that is sanctified by the blood of the covenant, but later counts that blood as unholy and trods Jesus himself - receiving the "sorer punishment" than those that broke the OT law in Moses time. It also talks of some having drawn back to perdition (verses 38-39).
Then why do we have to believe?
One minor request: no need to type in all caps and bold - the internet equivalent of shouting - we can both make our comments in a calm, gentle manner.
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
Like others who have been taught false doctrine you will not listen to reason OR scripture. There isn't anything else to say.
Good luck with your shacky, uncertain, hopeful walk with God. GOODBYE
To bad you have chosen not to read that link
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
I'm not shouting just highlighting my points which is very plain to see in my post. If I was shouting I would be rude to you which I haven't been.
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
HERE IS WHAT THE LINK ON COVENANTS HAD TO SAY ABOUT
UNCONDITIONAL COVENANTS
God
Genesis 9:9
Unconditional covenant = declares God's purpose will be fulfilled regardless of man's response. This does not mean man makes no response but man's response doesn't leave fulfillment of covenant in doubt. Noah responded - he built the ark in faith!
Hebrews 11:7
Covenant entails responsibility!
CONDITIONAL COVENANTS
God,
Moses &
Israel
Ex 34:27
Conditional = fulfillment depends on recipients meeting conditions imposed (Note however that even the "unconditional" covenants so not abrogate man's responsibility, e.g. Noah built an Ark; Abram cut animals in half, etc)
UNCONDITIONAL COVENANTS
God
Genesis 9:9
Unconditional covenant = declares God's purpose will be fulfilled regardless of man's response. This does not mean man makes no response but man's response doesn't leave fulfillment of covenant in doubt. Noah responded - he built the ark in faith!
Hebrews 11:7
Covenant entails responsibility!
CONDITIONAL COVENANTS
God,
Moses &
Israel
Ex 34:27
Conditional = fulfillment depends on recipients meeting conditions imposed (Note however that even the "unconditional" covenants so not abrogate man's responsibility, e.g. Noah built an Ark; Abram cut animals in half, etc)