Losing one's salvation

[natters]

Helen, how can someone be cut off of something they were never on? And in your last post, you said this was about Christians, but about unfruitful areas being pruned. I thus don't understand which view you have of this passage.

Samplewow, I have several other scriptures, and I have read the rest of the Bible. I'm still on this particular one until someone is willing to discuss the obvious about it. See my question in my last post.

 

[SAMPLEWOW]

natters ha man I'm just giving you some guff,I will be honest and tell you I don't have all the answers and neither do most of the others on this board but I have learned much here. Just keep an open mind is all I am saying.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Helen,

you say,

Someone who is not abiding in Christ has never been grafted in!

I disagree.

Please Scripture.

Many baptists who hold security salvation doctrine, saying like as in Luke 8:13, that a person falling away is not saved in the first place.

This is an old argument for about 400 to 500 years since Calvinism doctrine of 'the perseverance of the saints'.

Luke 8:13 louds very clear, that a person who did BELIEVED in the first place for a while, then when the temptation, and suddenly falling awy, because have no root.

You saying that a person has never been grafted in, as you mean that a person is not saved in the first place. I disagree with you.

Romans 11:19 tells us, they are broken off, because of their unbelief. In the first place, they were in the branches with belief. Then, they become unbelief, they are cut off.

But, Romans 11:23 tells us, God can put person graf into AGAIN, unless a person have to repent of sins again, and believing in Christ.

John chapter 15 speaks of the vine, about our spiritual life, if we abide in Christ, we are carry the fruits and produce. If we do not abide in Christ, and do not carry fruit, then cut off.

Obivously, any person who are abide in Christ in the first place, but afterward stop believing, and not endure for Christ, shall be cut off.

Both John 15 and Romans 11 are very clear speak of salvation. No way you can afford to ignore these passage. These are truth with warning. We must take heed what God's Word saying.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Luk 8:13 (KJV1611 Edition):
They on the rocke, are they which when they
heare, receiue the word with ioy; and these haue
no roote, which for a while beleeue, and in time
of temptation fall away.

DeafPosttrib: //Luke 8:13 louds very clear, that a person who did BELIEVED in the first place for a while, then when the temptation, and suddenly falling awy, because have no root. //

Your statment is self-conflicting. The ROOT is Jesus.
If they believed the root: Jesus, then they would
be eternally saved. They believed the Heard Word not
the Living Word.

My pastor has just completed a three-week sermon on
saving repentance and not-saving repentance. There is
a big difference: Messiah Jesus.

In-security Salvation is the OPPOSITE OF:

Joh 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
For God so loued ye world, that he gaue his only
begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him,
should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.

Which part of "not perish" and "have everlasting life"
are you having problems with today?

 

[natters]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Your statment is self-conflicting. The ROOT is Jesus.
If they believed the root: Jesus, then they would
be eternally saved. They believed the Heard Word not
the Living Word.

The passage does not say the root is Jesus in this parable. In fact, the parable says the root needed is "in themselves" (Matt 13:21, Mark 4:17). Similarly, Matt 3:10 and Luke 3:9 talk of the axe being laid at the root of the trees, and unfruitful trees are cut down.

In-security Salvation is the OPPOSITE OF:

Joh 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
For God so loued ye world, that he gaue his only
begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him,
should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.

Which part of "not perish" and "have everlasting life"
are you having problems with today?

Neither - but note what is required: whosoever believeth. In the Greek, this verb is in the continuous, ongoing form - not the simple one-time form.

 

[SAMPLEWOW]

How can one unbelieve natters.There is know such thing as the simple one-time form in believing in God.
One either believes or does not believe .

 

[natters]

Originally posted by SAMPLEWOW:
How can one unbelieve natters.There is know such thing as the simple one-time form in believing in God.
One either believes or does not believe .

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

 

[SAMPLEWOW]

natters,is this not speaking of one that is not saved as in;one that believes in the existence of God but chooses to reject Him?

 

[natters]

No, because it is contrasted in the prior verse with those that have the word taken away from them "lest they should believe and be saved". Belief here is tied to salvation, as it is throughout the NT. The ones in verse 13 believe for a while, then fall away.

 

[Helen]

If one can lose one's salvation, then one wasn't really saved, which means that one's belief meant nothing in the long run. And saved isn't saved. And, contrary to what John reassures in his first letter, we cannot know we are saved...ever.

We are bought by Christ, natters. We are owned by Him if we are born again. That which is bought, paid for, and owned does not have the option of backing out of the sale.

We are not hirelings of righteousness. We are SLAVES of righteousness. We are owned.

 

[natters]

Originally posted by Helen:
If one can lose one's salvation, then one wasn't really saved,

That doesn't make sense. If they weren't saved, then they didn't lose anything, they didn't fall away from anything, they didn't turn from anything, they didn't get cut off of anything, etc.

And, contrary to what John reassures in his first letter, we cannot know we are saved...ever.

Untrue. I know I am married, despite the fact that marriages can end before their intended end.

We are bought by Christ, natters. We are owned by Him if we are born again. That which is bought, paid for, and owned does not have the option of backing out of the sale.

We are not hirelings of righteousness. We are SLAVES of righteousness. We are owned.

The owned branch can be cut off. The forgiven servant can have his forgiveness revoked.

 

[Helen]

That is a sad way to live. You must always have to concentrate on yourself, to make sure your believing is up to par every second!

In contrast, I know that I am His and I can simply live listening for His direction and in response to His corrections.

I know I am saved. And I know I am saved eternally. I know I am His and that nothing, ever, can separate me from Him.

 

[natters]

Originally posted by Helen:
That is a sad way to live. You must always have to concentrate on yourself, to make sure your believing is up to par every second!

Is being married a sad way to live, knowing that divorce is possible?

In contrast, I know that I am His and I can simply live listening for His direction and in response to His corrections.

That's how I live as well.

I know I am saved. And I know I am saved eternally.

I know the same.

I know I am His and that nothing, ever, can separate me from Him.

Nothing can separate you from his love, but the branch can be cut off and the forgiven servant can have his forgiveness revoked nonetheless.

 

[Helen]

And can my old dead sin nature then be resurrected?

 

[natters]

I don't exactly know, but I know the dog can return to its vomit, the sow that was washed can return to the mire. The branch can be cut off and the servant that was forgiven can have his forgiveness revoked.

 

[Helen]

But my new nature is permanent.

 

[natters]

And yet the dog can return to its vomit, the sow that was washed can return to the mire. The branch can be cut off and the servant that was forgiven can have his forgiveness revoked.

 

[Helen]

But my sin nature is DEAD, gone, and I am a SLAVE of righteousness. I have a new nature. I am not a dog. I am not a pig. Nor am I a servant. I am His slave. I belong to HIM. It's a permanent condition.

 

[natters]

I'm just presenting scriptures. Disagree with them if you want to.

And yes, you ARE a servant. Different translations are just using slave/servant for the same Greek word.

 

[SAMPLEWOW]

natters please explain to me what John10:28means then.