Losing one's salvation

[ascund]

Hey natters

Originally posted by natters:
"what God hath joined together, let no man put assunder" - sound familiar?

It sounds familiar and OSAS!

Man cannot, either by bad works or lack of good works, undo what God has accounted to the believer on the basis of Christ's finished, completed, and sufficient work on the Cross.

Lloyd

 

[ccrobinson]

Thought you were done here. Gotta have the last word, eh?

Considering that you ignored questions yourself, yeah, I'd say you haven't dealt adequately with some things, and haven't dealt with other things at all. If you want to bail, then bail, but you don't get to complain that people ignore your questions while you do the same thing yourself.

As far as I can tell, after 12 pages in this thread, answers have been given to your questions. Since we, the OSAS camp, don't see things your way, and don't answer the way you think we should, you don't accept the answer and think we're wrong. That's fine. But just because you don't like the answers don't mean the questions haven't been addressed.

At this point, it doesn't matter to me whether you answer my questions about your contradictory statements or not. I'm confident of my belief and if you can sleep at night confident in yours, then I'm cool with that.

I'm off to debate something else.

You may now have the last word.

 

[Artimaeus]

 

[le bel]

Originally posted by ascund:
Hey natters

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by natters:
"what God hath joined together, let no man put assunder" - sound familiar?

It sounds familiar and OSAS!

Man cannot, either by bad works or lack of good works, undo what God has accounted to the believer on the basis of Christ's finished, completed, and sufficient work on the Cross.

Lloyd </font>[/QUOTE]I concur!

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[jarhed]

Originally posted by Roguelet:
You can't argue with truth Natters, TRUTH will always prevail. There are hundreds of verses that point to assurance of salvation and only a few that don't. The whole NT is about Love, Mercy, Grace, Forgiveness and being reconciled to God through Jesus. All of which God did and not us. How can you UNDO anything that God has DONE ?

You CAN'T and that is where you error lies in the fact that you think YOU can.

I would concur with most of what you say here, however I take issue with "a few" verses that support a loss of salvation. I have never found them. The ones that "probationary life" crowd uses are taken out of context. They like to use conditional sanctification verses (the Christian being addressed concerning practical christian living and the status of his FELLOWSHIP, as opposed to RELATIONSHIP), and Kingdom verses, (like Matt.24-25) which refer to Christ as he relates to the NATION of Israel.

As far as OSAS, it is plain sense of biblical principles as well as definition. According to Rom.3 God has JUSTIFIED (past tense) me FREELY on the basis of my placing my faith in the Christ. Justification is the DECLARITIVE, JUDICIAL act whereby God legally declares that I am in possession of His RIGHTEOUSNESS. There is nothing I can do to get it...Christ got it for me. It is not based on works (again textual), and all of Romans 5-8 is based on the statement made in Rom.5:1 declaring that I PRESENTLY POSSESS PEACE WITH GOD, based on what Christ has done. This means I am no longer his enemy! All of the language is intentionally eternal, not temporal. Imputation is eternal. Redemption: def: to purchase from the open market at a price predetermined by the seller, without the option or opportunity of return....I think that is fairly plain.

The Bible says that the declaration of JUSTIFICATION declares the Righteousness of God (because he MUST respect His own WORK), to "unjustify" (an impossiblity) then would obviously declare his unrighteousness...UHMMM, I don't think that is going to happen.

We are the property of GOD (bought with a price), therefore it is incumbant upon us to recognize this and serve out of love, not out of constraint. Man is too stupid to serve God out of fear anyway (just Bible), man can only serve God as he submits to him in thankfulness and allows the Holy Spirit to serve God through him.

I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp.

IT AIN'T ABOUT ME!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DeadMan]

This sure was an interesting thread to read. I hadn't ever heard some of the opinions posted here.

My $.02 worth is simple: I believe you can not lose your salvation. God PROMISED salvation to those who believe in His Son. God doesn't break promises. So it is the unsaved whose salvation is at risk.

 

[woodyR]

does the Bible say For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have -hmm- everlasting life? if memory serves me right the Bible says everlasting life. like F-O-R-E-V-E-R !!

 

[Hope of Glory]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
No unbeliever could be considered to be a partaker of the Holy Ghost. It is obviously talking about believers. It does say that the one who has fallen away is rejected, and their end is to be burned. If this is not speaking about eternal salvation (and I don't believe it is) then it must be speaking of the believers portion at the judgment seat.

Yes, yes, yes!

 

[Robert J Hutton]

Look at the 12 spies who went to spy out the land of Canaan. They entered the land and even handled it's fruit; but when the time came to properly enter they backed out. This is like people who taste so much of the Gospel but never truly enter in. That is what these verses in Hebrews are about.

Kind regards to all.

Bob

 

[Robert J Hutton]

My apologies for a mistake in the last post; 2 out of the 12 wanted to go in; but 10 backed out; slip of the pen (or keyboard!)

Kind regards to all.

Bob

 

[bapmom]

Thats an interesting analogy, RJHutton.

Ive heard though that the Promised Land doesn't represent salvation or heaven, but that it better represents the victorious Christian life. After all, 2 tribes didn't cross Jordan at all, but they were not rejected from being God's people because of it.

 

[Hope of Glory]

It's a type of the Kingdom.

BTW, it's the Land Flowing with Milk and Honey; the better part of the inheritance, which does represent the end result of the victorious Christian life. They were already in the Promised Land when they left Egypt.

Genesis 15:18: In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

 

[Scott J]

It's dangerous to try to derive doctrine from types.

 

[In His Grace]

I'm so glad God has a hold of me, not me holding him.

 

[Scott J]

I believe that the first act/cause humanly speaking is regeneration. God resurrects a dead spirit. All other things are directly or indirectly results of God's sovereign act of grace towards an individual according to His pleasure and purpose. We do make a free will choice... by a will that is alive and not dead... a will that is free and not in bondage to sin and death.

The argument against election/predestination is that it turns man into a puppet... I disagree. It frees man from being the puppet of the world, flesh, and devil.

If you make man ultimately sovereign over his salvation then you will find Natter's arguments very difficult to escape. If the foundational cause of an individual's salvation is their free will choice to have faith then that should also be its sustaining power as Natter's suggests.

 

[Hope of Glory]

It's dangerous to try to derive doctrine from types.

"Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

 

[Scott J]

Right. Ensamples or examples.

A halfback screen is an example of a football play. But you wouldn't define or limit all football plays based on the specifics of a screen. The screen is governed by different rules and applies to different situations than a "hail Mary"... which is also an example of a football play.

My point is that you can't derive hard and fast rules by extending/expounding an example.

 

[Hope of Glory]

A halfback screen is an example of a halfback screen, that can be applied to later halfback screens.

The Exodus is a type of the Kingdom, and I think the Holy Spirit is perfectly capable of providing logical and accurate types; not ones that have you guessing and making great leaps of logic.

 

[Scott J]

A type is an analogy. It helps you understand something that is stated. If you attempt to concoct a rule based on an analogy, you will run the risk of adding doctrine to scripture.