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LOST, NOT STOLEN: The Conservative Case that Trump Lost and Biden Won the 2020 Presidential Election

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Report

Introduction

We are political conservatives who have spent most of our adult lives working to support the Constitution and the conservative principles upon which it is based: limited government, liberty, equality of opportunity, freedom of religion, a strong national defense, and the rule of law.

We have become deeply troubled by efforts to overturn or discredit the results of the 2020 Presidential Election. There is no principle of our Republic more fundamental than the right of the People to elect our leaders and for their votes to be counted accurately. Efforts to thwart the People’s choice are deeply undemocratic and unpatriotic. Claims that an election was stolen, or that the outcome resulted from fraud, are deadly serious and should be made only on the basis of real and powerful evidence. If the American people lose trust that our elections are free and fair, we will lose our democracy. As Jonathan Haidt observed, “We just don’t know what a democracy looks like when you drain all the trust out of the system.” Paul Kelly, “Very Good Chance” Democracy Is Doomed in America, Says Haidt, AUSTRALIAN (July 20, 2019).

We therefore have undertaken an examination of every claim of fraud and miscount put forward by former President Trump and his advocates, and now put the results of those investigations before the American people, and especially before fellow conservatives who may be uncertain about what and whom to believe. Our conclusion is unequivocal: Joe Biden was the choice of a majority of the Electors, who themselves were the choice of the majority of voters in their states. Biden’s victory is easily explained by a political landscape that was much different in 2020 than it was when President Trump narrowly won the presidency in 2016. President Trump waged his campaign for re-election during a devastating worldwide pandemic that caused a severe downturn in the global economy. This, coupled with an electorate that included a small but statistically significant number willing to vote for other Republican candidates on the ballot but not for President Trump, are the reasons his campaign fell short, not a fraudulent election.

Donald Trump and his supporters have failed to present evidence of fraud or inaccurate results significant enough to invalidate the results of the 2020 Presidential Election. We do not claim that election administration is perfect. Election fraud is a real thing; there are prosecutions in almost every election year, and no doubt some election fraud goes undetected. Nor do we disparage attempts to reduce fraud. States should continue to do what they can do to eliminate opportunities for election fraud and to punish it when it occurs. But there is absolutely no evidence of fraud in the 2020 Presidential Election on the magnitude necessary to shift the result in any state, let alone the nation as a whole. In fact, there was no fraud that changed the outcome in even a single precinct. It is wrong, and bad for our country, for people to propagate baseless claims that President Biden’s election was not legitimate.

In the past 30 years, those tasked with administering our elections have helped create a modern election system in which we can and should have confidence. In all fifty states and at the national level there are transparent recount and election contest procedures designed to allow candidates to investigate and litigate claims of voter fraud and corruption. Those procedures have been tested in every presidential election since at least 2000 and have been found in every instance to be sound and reliable. The Trump Campaign and its supporters had full access to these remedies and used them in 64 proceedings in the states we examine, and in each instance, their claims of fraud and miscount failed. Our review of each of these Trump charges affirms that
the 2020 election was administered by trained professionals who reaffirmed their established track record for fairness.

The performance of the system in 2020 was all the more remarkable because of the extraordinary circumstances caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, which precipitated changes on an unprecedented scope and timeline. Some of those changes may have created possibilities for fraud, but there is no evidence that those risks materialized in reality; nor did they result in dampening voter participation—quite the opposite. Nonetheless, moving forward, the states should redouble their efforts to strengthen the integrity of our voting systems and make it as easy to vote and as hard to cheat as possible for persons of every circumstance.

We urge our fellow conservatives to cease obsessing over the results of the 2020 election, and to focus instead on presenting candidates and ideas that offer a positive vision for overcoming our current difficulties and bringing greater peace, prosperity, and liberty to our nation.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
The Report

Introduction

We are political conservatives who have spent most of our adult lives working to support the Constitution and the conservative principles upon which it is based: limited government, liberty, equality of opportunity, freedom of religion, a strong national defense, and the rule of law.

We have become deeply troubled by efforts to overturn or discredit the results of the 2020 Presidential Election. There is no principle of our Republic more fundamental than the right of the People to elect our leaders and for their votes to be counted accurately. Efforts to thwart the People’s choice are deeply undemocratic and unpatriotic. Claims that an election was stolen, or that the outcome resulted from fraud, are deadly serious and should be made only on the basis of real and powerful evidence. If the American people lose trust that our elections are free and fair, we will lose our democracy. As Jonathan Haidt observed, “We just don’t know what a democracy looks like when you drain all the trust out of the system.” Paul Kelly, “Very Good Chance” Democracy Is Doomed in America, Says Haidt, AUSTRALIAN (July 20, 2019).

We therefore have undertaken an examination of every claim of fraud and miscount put forward by former President Trump and his advocates, and now put the results of those investigations before the American people, and especially before fellow conservatives who may be uncertain about what and whom to believe. Our conclusion is unequivocal: Joe Biden was the choice of a majority of the Electors, who themselves were the choice of the majority of voters in their states. Biden’s victory is easily explained by a political landscape that was much different in 2020 than it was when President Trump narrowly won the presidency in 2016. President Trump waged his campaign for re-election during a devastating worldwide pandemic that caused a severe downturn in the global economy. This, coupled with an electorate that included a small but statistically significant number willing to vote for other Republican candidates on the ballot but not for President Trump, are the reasons his campaign fell short, not a fraudulent election.

Donald Trump and his supporters have failed to present evidence of fraud or inaccurate results significant enough to invalidate the results of the 2020 Presidential Election. We do not claim that election administration is perfect. Election fraud is a real thing; there are prosecutions in almost every election year, and no doubt some election fraud goes undetected. Nor do we disparage attempts to reduce fraud. States should continue to do what they can do to eliminate opportunities for election fraud and to punish it when it occurs. But there is absolutely no evidence of fraud in the 2020 Presidential Election on the magnitude necessary to shift the result in any state, let alone the nation as a whole. In fact, there was no fraud that changed the outcome in even a single precinct. It is wrong, and bad for our country, for people to propagate baseless claims that President Biden’s election was not legitimate.

In the past 30 years, those tasked with administering our elections have helped create a modern election system in which we can and should have confidence. In all fifty states and at the national level there are transparent recount and election contest procedures designed to allow candidates to investigate and litigate claims of voter fraud and corruption. Those procedures have been tested in every presidential election since at least 2000 and have been found in every instance to be sound and reliable. The Trump Campaign and its supporters had full access to these remedies and used them in 64 proceedings in the states we examine, and in each instance, their claims of fraud and miscount failed. Our review of each of these Trump charges affirms that
the 2020 election was administered by trained professionals who reaffirmed their established track record for fairness.

The performance of the system in 2020 was all the more remarkable because of the extraordinary circumstances caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, which precipitated changes on an unprecedented scope and timeline. Some of those changes may have created possibilities for fraud, but there is no evidence that those risks materialized in reality; nor did they result in dampening voter participation—quite the opposite. Nonetheless, moving forward, the states should redouble their efforts to strengthen the integrity of our voting systems and make it as easy to vote and as hard to cheat as possible for persons of every circumstance.

We urge our fellow conservatives to cease obsessing over the results of the 2020 election, and to focus instead on presenting candidates and ideas that offer a positive vision for overcoming our current difficulties and bringing greater peace, prosperity, and liberty to our nation.
I have a couple of observations. First I question the timing of this “report” being a few months before midterms. Despite the claims of being unbiased, this report is clearly, imo, designed to undermine Trump backed candidates in the midterms and Trump in 2024.

Secondly, I waded through the analysis of the Arizona election. They claim Trump lost because republicans voted for other republicans down ballot instead of Trump.

They make this claim, but don’t give the names of those candidates and how many votes they received. There were 2.6 million votes cast in 2016 and 3.4 million cast in 2020. My rough math skills estimate a 30% increase in voter turnout, though the authors gave no info on actual voter registration increases or number of registered voters actually voting.

A quick search of Arizona SOS site shows about 4.2 million registered voters with approximately 80% voter turnout in 2020. There was an increase in voter registration of about 700,000 from 2016 to 2020.

Bottom line, Trump got about 400,000 more votes in 2020 than in 2016 despite their claim he lost because more repubs chose down ballot alternatives to Trump.

They also did not address the issue of running the election contrary to established election laws, due to Covid.

So, I see this report as an attempt by establishment repubs to undermine Trump backed candidates in 2022 and Trump in 2024.

I expect the Jan 6 committee to call the leaders of this study to testify. It looks coordinated to me.

Thanks for the info. I doubt it will change many minds and perhaps we are cursed to talk about this forever (or at least until 2024 election is over.)

peace to you
 

Conan

Well-Known Member
We have a controlled media that wanted Trump out because he doesn't like war. Rather the controlled media is owned by billionaires who wanted Trump out because he would not do their will. Can there ever be a fair election again?
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
“failed to produce evidence”
One of the biggest issues in American society is understanding what is evidence and what is not. It all goes back to critical thinking and simple logic. Ask "what is the claim?" Then ask "what would demonstrate this claim is true?" Then look at what is claimed to be evidence and determine if it is what it claims to be (determine the objective veracity of the alleged evidence). If the alleged evidence is confirmed to have veracity, next determine if it definitively demonstrates the truth of the claim, or if it is just an allegation.

Everything I have even seen presented as evidence that the 2020 election was stolen fails these simple tests.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
One of the biggest issues in American society is understanding what is evidence and what is not. It all goes back to critical thinking and simple logic. Ask "what is the claim?" Then ask "what would demonstrate this claim is true?" Then look at what is claimed to be evidence and determine if it is what it claims to be (determine the objective veracity of the alleged evidence). If the alleged evidence is confirmed to have veracity, next determine if it definitively demonstrates the truth of the claim, or if it is just an allegation.

Everything I have even seen presented as evidence that the 2020 election was stolen fails these simple tests.


Yea h no everything you have seen is viewed through the lens of your hatred of Trump. That evidence has been on display on this board for a while. People like you, the democrats, cheney have all shown a disgusting and unchristian attitude toward Trump. Youre not credible. Since Trump became president the tone of your posts has bottomed out.
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
One of the biggest issues in American society is understanding what is evidence and what is not. It all goes back to critical thinking and simple logic. Ask "what is the claim?" Then ask "what would demonstrate this claim is true?" Then look at what is claimed to be evidence and determine if it is what it claims to be (determine the objective veracity of the alleged evidence). If the alleged evidence is confirmed to have veracity, next determine if it definitively demonstrates the truth of the claim, or if it is just an allegation.

Everything I have even seen presented as evidence that the 2020 election was stolen fails these simple tests.
Seen 2000 Mules?
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
One of the biggest issues in American society is understanding what is evidence and what is not. It all goes back to critical thinking and simple logic. Ask "what is the claim?" Then ask "what would demonstrate this claim is true?" …..
Right! Critical thinking and logic.

Biden didn’t campaign but got over 80 million votes; 15 million more than Clinton or Obama; by far the most votes in US history.

Trump got nearly 10 million more votes in 2020 than in 2016; never before done in history; and lost.

Critical thinking and logic are a must.

Bottom line, this report doesn’t matter. This conversation doesn’t matter. I doubt there are many people who haven’t made a firm opinion about the election, pro or con. No one is going to change their mind.

Once the states certified the results and sent electors to Congress, it is over.

Peace to you
 
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Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yea h no everything you have seen is viewed through the lens of your hatred of Trump.
You are fibbing again. I do not hate Trump.

That evidence has been on display on this board for a while.
You don't understand evidence, that's quite clear.

People like you, the democrats, cheney have all shown a disgusting and unchristian attitude toward Trump.
I realize that most people around here think that a fawning indulgence toward Trump is the 'Christian attitude' we should aspire toward, but I am partial to the teachings of Jesus. I simply point out that Trumpism is the exact opposite of the Sermon on the Mount. A disciple of Jesus cannot be a rabid supporter of Trump without doing serious damage to the message of Jesus. That way leads to destruction.

Youre not credible. Since Trump became president the tone of your posts has bottomed out.
Long before Trump rode down the escalator you have treated me with contempt and attacked my posts. You are simply using new excuses to justify your bad behavior.
 

Conan

Well-Known Member
You are fibbing again. I do not hate Trump.


You don't understand evidence, that's quite clear.


I realize that most people around here think that a fawning indulgence toward Trump is the 'Christian attitude' we should aspire toward, but I am partial to the teachings of Jesus. I simply point out that Trumpism is the exact opposite of the Sermon on the Mount. A disciple of Jesus cannot be a rabid supporter of Trump without doing serious damage to the message of Jesus. That way leads to destruction.


Long before Trump rode down the escalator you have treated me with contempt and attacked my posts. You are simply using new excuses to justify your bad behavior.
I don't mean to but in. I know something wicked that Trump has done. However that pales in comparision to what Biden has done. Who has killed more, Trump or Bidon? Bidon by far. Who has killed more, obomo or Trump? Obomo by far has killed more, it pales in comparision! Who has killed more people, busho or Trump? By far busho, there is no comparision whatsoever. One redeeming thing about Trump is he doesn't want war. You cannot say the same about busho 2, obomo or bidon. I would say your hatred of Trump is phony and puny, but the ability of the others to kill and destroy is real. Your comparision is rediculous.
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
I realize that most people around here think that a fawning indulgence toward Trump is the 'Christian attitude' we should aspire toward, but I am partial to the teachings of Jesus. I simply point out that Trumpism is the exact opposite of the Sermon on the Mount. A disciple of Jesus cannot be a rabid supporter of Trump without doing serious damage to the message of Jesus. That way leads to destruction.
hogwash
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You are fibbing again. I do not hate Trump.

Every post of yours about him says otherwise.


You don't understand evidence, that's quite clear.

sigh,


ev·i·dence
/ˈevədəns/
Learn to pronounce

noun
  1. the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
    "the study finds little evidence of overt discrimination"


I realize that most people around here think that a fawning indulgence toward Trump is the 'Christian attitude' we should aspire toward, but I am partial to the teachings of Jesus. I simply point out that Trumpism is the exact opposite of the Sermon on the Mount. A disciple of Jesus cannot be a rabid supporter of Trump without doing serious damage to the message of Jesus. That way leads to destruction.

fawning, displaying exaggerated flattery or affection; obsequious.

You will have to provide "evidence" of this claim. Otherwise it is just an exaggerated statement toward those who have some level of support for someone you have given evidence that you hate.


Long before Trump rode down the escalator you have treated me with contempt and attacked my posts. You are simply using new excuses to justify your bad behavior.

This is most likely true. I have attacked your posts. You post such ridiculous things and have such a far left attitude about the world. But please, let's not pretend your posts toward me have been any different.
 

777

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
LOL, these Democrats and RINOs don't understand the Trump support and never, ever will understand it, including all the RINOs that wrote this report:

One Lousy GOP Factcheck Can't Paper Over Decades of Anti-Democratic Engineering (esquire.com)

not one of them voted for Trump ever - either they did what the OP did, voted for Biden or sat out the election and complained only about Trump. The latter group consists mostly of RINOs that can't grasp the fact that the elite party rulers don't get to pick our nominee like the Democrats do. It's a waste of time to try to reason with them.
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Every post of yours about him says otherwise.
I realize that you may not be able to conceive of someone disagreeing with, or calling out the evil actions of, another person without literally HATING them. But that says a lot about you and nothing about me.

I have attacked your posts. You post such ridiculous things and have such a far left attitude about the world.
That's because I don't have the "culture wars" mentality that is so popular in our circles. I am focused on Kingdom of God issues and avoid trying to change hearts and minds through the sword (earthly political power), since that's not the way the Kingdom of Jesus works. The early church effectively transformed the world without a bit of political power. Baptists used to understand this.

But please, let's not pretend your posts toward me have been any different.
I suspect they are. I do not hate you or hold you in contempt. If you think I do, you are mistaken and I have miscommunicated. I apologize for anything I have done to make you feel like I hate you.
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Biden didn’t campaign but got over 80 million votes; 15 million more than Clinton or Obama; by far the most votes in US history.
Biden did campaign, but not like Trump. Biden showed wisdom and concern for his supporters by not staging rallies that caused participants and hosting communities to experience an upsurge in COVID infections and death.

Moreover, one you step outside of the Right Wing Distortion Bubble, you realize that Trump never had an approval rating much above 40% (if ever that high), and the majority of the nation was highly motivated to get Trump out of office by voting. It had very little to do with Biden and everything to do with the way most of the country perceived Trump to be a dangerous President.

Trump got nearly 10 million more votes in 2020 than in 2016; never before done in history; and lost.
Yep. Massive turnout on both sides.

Critical thinking and logic are a must.
Absolutely.

Bottom line, this report doesn’t matter. This conversation doesn’t matter. I doubt there are many people who haven’t made a firm opinion about the election, pro or con. No one is going to change their mind.
And that's really sad. When facts don't matter, we steer ourselves to destruction as a nation. Fortunately, many people outside of the Right Wing Distortion Bubble are persuaded by facts, and there has been no solid evidence that the 2020 election was stolen -- even after dozens of court cases and "audits."

Once the states certified the results and sent electors to Congress, it is over.
That's true. So why does Trump keep crying about it like a spoiled child?
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I realize that you may not be able to conceive of someone disagreeing with, or calling out the evil actions of, another person without literally HATING them. But that says a lot about you and nothing about me.


That's because I don't have the "culture wars" mentality that is so popular in our circles. I am focused on Kingdom of God issues and avoid trying to change hearts and minds through the sword (earthly political power), since that's not the way the Kingdom of Jesus works. The early church effectively transformed the world without a bit of political power. Baptists used to understand this.


I suspect they are. I do not hate you or hold you in contempt. If you think I do, you are mistaken and I have miscommunicated. I apologize for anything I have done to make you feel like I hate you.


I never said anything about you hating me. Just dont pretend your posts toward me are any different than mine toward you. And your hate toward Trump is recognized by the irrational level of your complaints about him
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
And your hate toward Trump is recognized by the irrational level of your complaints about him
It's actually less about Trump than about people here who support him in the name of Jesus. I also rail against people telling lies on a site that is supposed to be a place where Christians gather. For instance, a recent post of yours. A Christian, especially a Christian leader, has no business posting lies.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It's actually less about Trump than about people here who support him in the name of Jesus. I also rail against people telling lies on a site that is supposed to be a place where Christians gather. For instance, a recent post of yours. A Christian, especially a Christian leader, has no business posting lies.


Nope the lie is yours. You take one portion of an article and pretend its the entire thing shame on you. You know after all these years i have a rule. 10 or more personal attacks and you go on ignore. Its that time.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
….

Moreover, one you step outside of the Right Wing Distortion Bubble, you realize that Trump never had an approval rating much above 40% (if ever that high),….?
And yet he managed about 47% of the vote in 2020, getting almost 10 million more votes than he did in 2016 and the Dems and elite repubs are absolutely terrified that he will run again.

You would think they would be encouraging him to run since they supposedly believe he has no chance???

peace to you
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nope the lie is yours. You take one portion of an article and pretend its the entire thing shame on you.
I didn't pretend anything. I just pointed out an obvious falsehood that throws everything else into question, including your ability to discern truth from lies. You have demonstrated over and over throughout the years that you cannot.

You know after all these years i have a rule. 10 or more personal attacks and you go on ignore. Its that time.
You write that like it is a threat. Go run and hide.
 
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