Louisiana Baptist

[PrTeacher10]

What are the thoughts on this school?

I am interested in completing a PhD with them...

I have an accredited MA in Theological studies, and a few degrees in education...loan debt is pretty high right now and I like there 200 down, 100 a month plan...

Please comment about the school, only.

Thoughts?
Thanks

 

[RG2]

From what I know LBU (not to be confused with Louisiana College) is not accredited by any body recognized by the US Department of Education. I've read some consider it a diploma mill, but that it isn't and does require work to get your degree. One thing I'd be weary of it that last time I checked it seemed like a lot of their faculty's degrees are from LBU as well. They are an "approved school" of the BBFI so you could expect they would follow theologically with them.

Now one red flag I had is though they show the tuition to be pretty cheap you need to check out the fees. If I remember the fees end up being almost what the tuition is.

Hope this helps.

 

[revmwc]

While they aren't accredited they are an affiliate school of a US Govt. (I hate typing that) approved (ouch that hurts) accrediting agency. The board has decided not to seek accrediation for many years. Will they some day maybe.

Outstanding Alums:
Chuck Missler
Bill Gothard

And these others:

http://www.lbu.edu/outstanding_alumni.htm

 

[preachinjesus]

I wouldn't recommend it. The whole concept is exactly what is wrong with lingering fundamentalist institutions and I think they end up being a disservice for students rather than a service.

The degree will be meaningless. You might be able to write PhD after your name but nobody who knows the school will take you seriously. You can't teach except for colleges that aren't recognized.

If you want the degree do the time. The point of academics, and I think we're forgetting this, isn't a degree but an refined way of thinking. This kind of a PhD isn't about helping you be a better scholar, it is about putting a pointless piece of paper in your hands.

Listen, my PhD was a vey hard get. I had to stay up late often, it took effort, I was stretched, but it's completely worth it. Why not apply for a quality program? One that has accountability and rigor?

Otherwise take the money you'd use, invest it, and then ask people (who know) what you should be reading and spend the next 5 years wearing the library doors out with your visits. You'd be better off.

 

[revmwc]

I wouldn't recommend it. The whole concept is exactly what is wrong with lingering fundamentalist institutions and I think they end up being a disservice for students rather than a service.

The degree will be meaningless. You might be able to write PhD after your name but nobody who knows the school will take you seriously. You can't teach except for colleges that aren't recognized.

If you want the degree do the time. The point of academics, and I think we're forgetting this, isn't a degree but an refined way of thinking. This kind of a PhD isn't about helping you be a better scholar, it is about putting a pointless piece of paper in your hands.

Listen, my PhD was a vey hard get. I had to stay up late often, it took effort, I was stretched, but it's completely worth it. Why not apply for a quality program? One that has accountability and rigor?

Otherwise take the money you'd use, invest it, and then ask people (who know) what you should be reading and spend the next 5 years wearing the library doors out with your visits. You'd be better off.

Have you experienced their curiculum? You say "I had to stay up late often, it took effort, I was stretched, but it's completely worth it. Why not apply for a quality program? One that has accountability and rigor?" how do you know what type rigor it takes to complete their courses if you've never tried them?

They've been around since 1973 even had a football program and gave scholarships for on campus work. We, the first college I attended, played them in football, they were under a different name back then. In the 1980's I had an opportunity to attend even was offered a football scholarship and turned it down, wasn't what I wanted at the time. I do know they awarded Jerry Falwells soon a Doctor of Numbers a few years back of which he gladly accepted. Seems he recognizes them as a good school. The accrediting thing I guess is what would stop many. Just saying I ralized who they were when reading their catalog.

 

[preachinjesus]

Have you experienced their curiculum? You say "I had to stay up late often, it took effort, I was stretched, but it's completely worth it. Why not apply for a quality program? One that has accountability and rigor?" how do you know what type rigor it takes to complete their courses if you've never tried them?

Well I've read their course catalog and caught the stuff about the PhD program. I've also talked with someone people (previous to this posting) familiar with the institution. Its a hack institution, bordering on diploma mill.

Notice what they say about their degree: In both the masters and doctoral levels, students are not only allowed, but encouraged to consider independent research. Independent research is when a student selects a topic of interest or a subject in which his educational skills are lacking (sometimes a need within the church prompts this realization) and he contacts the dean for approval and clarification for what must be done to receive course credit before proceeding.

I have a lot of trouble with student created content. You need instructors for a reason. Also, and we've had this discussion before, the program isn't rigorous. Rigor requires work in languages, deep concentrated studies on specialized fields led by experts, rigor necessitates academic integrity, it requires physical proximity to educators, it lives of deep engagement in perspectives that are uncommon to one's own perspective.

They've been around since 1973 even had a football program and gave scholarships for on campus work. We, the first college I attended, played them in football, they were under a different name back then. In the 1980's I had an opportunity to attend even was offered a football scholarship and turned it down, wasn't what I wanted at the time.

Football doesn't mean a thing.

I do know they awarded Jerry Falwells soon a Doctor of Numbers a few years back of which he gladly accepted. Seems he recognizes them as a good school.

Well two points: 1. I knew Dr Falwell and he never met an honorary degree he didn't like, 2. His endorsement of a school doesn't mean much to me...though I doubt he's endorsing anyone right now...

The accrediting thing I guess is what would stop many. Just saying I ralized who they were when reading their catalog.

Accreditation is a big deal, it means you've got a commitment to honest and openness. It also means you're efforting yourself to provide the best education you can for your students. I don't see that in LBU.

 

[Greektim]

Well I've read their course catalog and caught the stuff about the PhD program. I've also talked with someone people (previous to this posting) familiar with the institution. Its a hack institution, bordering on diploma mill.

Notice what they say about their degree: In both the masters and doctoral levels, students are not only allowed, but encouraged to consider independent research. Independent research is when a student selects a topic of interest or a subject in which his educational skills are lacking (sometimes a need within the church prompts this realization) and he contacts the dean for approval and clarification for what must be done to receive course credit before proceeding.

I have a lot of trouble with student created content. You need instructors for a reason. Also, and we've had this discussion before, the program isn't rigorous. Rigor requires work in languages, deep concentrated studies on specialized fields led by experts, rigor necessitates academic integrity, it requires physical proximity to educators, it lives of deep engagement in perspectives that are uncommon to one's own perspective.



Football doesn't mean a thing.



Well two points: 1. I knew Dr Falwell and he never met an honorary degree he didn't like, 2. His endorsement of a school doesn't mean much to me...though I doubt he's endorsing anyone right now...



Accreditation is a big deal, it means you've got a commitment to honest and openness. It also means you're efforting yourself to provide the best education you can for your students. I don't see that in LBU.

This post is a good response. I hope PrTeacher10 pays attention. Good points were made.

 

[Siberian]

...rigor ... requires physical proximity to educators

I agree with your other points, but disagree with this strongly. Like it or not, today's technology is making it possible to have both rigor and physical distance in the same program.

 

[RG2]

I agree with your other points, but disagree with this strongly. Like it or not, today's technology is making it possible to have both rigor and physical distance in the same program.

+1. I've taken plenty of online and in-class courses. There's been bad and good on both sides. Most of the on-line classes I've taken have actually required more work and were graded harder than the in-class classes. Now granted all of these classes were from regionally accredited institutions. Also, not to rant but I have an in-class class right now that I haven't been able to get a hold of the instructor for days... and I have an exam due tomorrow! I've had plenty of online classes where I've gotten responses within minutes if not by the end of the day.

Rigor simply requires that the professor and institution both are committed to high standards.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Check into the Ph.D. program at the International Baptist Theological Seminary in Prague, Czech Republic. They have excellent programs.

Additionally IBTS has the largest English language theological collection in Europe.

All classes and papers are in English as there are students from so many language background. We Americans are fortunate that English is THE language currently.

IBTS offers qualified candidates the possibility to pursue doctoral studies in appropriate theological disciplines validated by the University of Wales. The studies may be taken full-time residentially over a period of three years or (more usually) part-time non-residentially over a period of five years. In the latter case, the student must come to IBTS at least twice a year.

Further details on the research degree programmes of the University of Wales are available on their website. For accessing it, on the top of this page search for 'Explore the University of Wales' then for FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS and under 'Current Institutions' the relevant information can be found. The direct link is here.

Those suitably qualified for matriculation and registration in a research degree programme (Master of Philosophy or Doctor of Philosophy) will normally have completed degrees to EU Bologna standard in the first and second cycle programmes - a bachelor's degree in the relevant discipline and a master's degree by advanced study with dissertation at second or "M" level.

IBTS admits suitably qualified people who have good skills in research and critical thinking and who have an outline proposal for an area in which they wish to do original research.

Normally, the proposed research topic should be in an area covered by IBTS Research Institutes and by our Master's level main subject emphasise which might be summarised as:

Applied Theology

including contextual theology, spirituality, theology and the environment, church and society, practice of ministry, learning and leadership, the theology of gathering, intentional, convictional communities.

Baptist/Anabaptist studies

Issues of Baptist and Anabaptist history, identity and lifestyle from the 1500's until the present day. An especial, but not exclusive, context of Europe.

Biblical Studies

Both Old and New Testament. A special interest is the field of ethics.
Contextual Missiology

Theology of Mission, Mission practice, theology and practice of Evangelism, relationship between Christianity and Islam, Mission in Europe today.

http://www.ibts.eu/programmes/post-graduate

 

[preachinjesus]

This post is a good response. I hope PrTeacher10 pays attention. Good points were made.

You are always far too kind friend. :thumbsup:

 

[preachinjesus]

I agree with your other points, but disagree with this strongly. Like it or not, today's technology is making it possible to have both rigor and physical distance in the same program.

I don't disagree with this, and frankly I think the challenge to many of our established institutions is how will they provide effective education utilizing tools and non-campus classes to broaden their scope and extend their reputations.

However (I'll be shading my hand a bit I guess) I've done some adjunct online work for two schools (that shall remain nameless) while also having an experience in the classroom as an adjunct previously. Online classes require extra attention and honestly most of colleagues and students don't go the extra mile to accomplish this. The students aren't as focused and can't handle higher level discussions (even across BB discussions.) Not to get into this too much but I really do think the online options are exciting and offer tremendous opportunities for students and institutions. Yet both are just approaching them lazily. I would prioritize online for certain required coursework in undergraduate and also some "lab/real world" experience for graduate level coursework.

However, at the PhD level there is something about being challenged personally by a professor who can evaluate you, critique you, and encourage you in your areas of deficiency and proficiency. I'm not saying we should require PhD students to sit and sour on campus when they're at dissertation phase...but during the seminar phase there is something good and healthy about being present and in a critical environment that breeds deeper thinking, more exposure to perspectives, and lends itself to rigor.

I don't disagree with you at all, however I am saying that we need to consider the realities of what it takes to provide world class online education.

 

[preachinjesus]

Rigor simply requires that the professor and institution both are committed to high standards.

Agreed. :thumbsup:

Being a life long learner is a trait instilled not installed.

 

[revmwc]

+1. I've taken plenty of online and in-class courses. There's been bad and good on both sides. Most of the on-line classes I've taken have actually required more work and were graded harder than the in-class classes. Now granted all of these classes were from regionally accredited institutions. Also, not to rant but I have an in-class class right now that I haven't been able to get a hold of the instructor for days... and I have an exam due tomorrow! I've had plenty of online classes where I've gotten responses within minutes if not by the end of the day.

Rigor simply requires that the professor and institution both are committed to high standards.

Definition of RIGOR
1a (1) : harsh inflexibility in opinion, temper, or judgment : severity (2) : the quality of being unyielding or inflexible : strictness (3) : severity of life : austerity b : an act or instance of strictness, severity, or cruelty
2: a tremor caused by a chill
3: a condition that makes life difficult, challenging, or uncomfortable; especially : extremity of cold
4: strict precision : exactness <logical rigor>
5a obsolete : rigidity, stiffness b : rigidness or torpor of organs or tissue that prevents response to stimuli

I say that pretty well describes those folks on here whose attitude is that of a worthless education. With them seeing an institution which offers distance learning so a student can continue work and family obligation as important in receiving an education as nothing because that doesn't fit their norm.

I have had both class room and distance learning courses both a chalenging especially when working, pastoring and raising a family.

Distance learning a term I picked up from a community college which offered distance learning courses. A state run and recognized school. Two of three courses I registered for only had me attend the 1st class to get the lesson plans. Had textbooks and syllibus with test on the courses. Emailed all work to the instructors and never saw them but that one time.
Louisiana Baptist sounds similar to this yet because they aren't accredited they are looked down upon.

Unless one has gone through the courses one doesn't know the rigor it takes from them.

 

[PrTeacher10]

Thanks for the replies.

Let me explain a bit more....

I have a career as a teacher. This is what I plan to do as a career. I currently serve as a pastor of a local church. This local church is where the Lord has placed me and they are unable to have paid full time pastor. I live in a poverty stricken, low socio-economic area. With that being said, there is no need for me paying thousands of dollars to get a degree that I wouldn't be using as a profession.

Typically the answer will be to "buy a few books," and save money. However, I find it hard to believe that books are better than education, even if the degree is UA. I'm not wanting a diploma mill, but I wouldn't consider LBU a mill. Maybe I am wrong.

I couldn't even afford to pay out of pocket for a tracs school. I'm just looking for an option that is not "buy some books."

I currently have degrees that are ra from three different institutions and have serious, but not outrageous debt.

Thanks

 

[Siberian]

I don't disagree with this, and frankly I think the challenge to many of our established institutions is how will they provide effective education utilizing tools and non-campus classes to broaden their scope and extend their reputations.

However (I'll be shading my hand a bit I guess) I've done some adjunct online work for two schools (that shall remain nameless) while also having an experience in the classroom as an adjunct previously. Online classes require extra attention and honestly most of colleagues and students don't go the extra mile to accomplish this. The students aren't as focused and can't handle higher level discussions (even across BB discussions.) Not to get into this too much but I really do think the online options are exciting and offer tremendous opportunities for students and institutions. Yet both are just approaching them lazily. I would prioritize online for certain required coursework in undergraduate and also some "lab/real world" experience for graduate level coursework.

However, at the PhD level there is something about being challenged personally by a professor who can evaluate you, critique you, and encourage you in your areas of deficiency and proficiency. I'm not saying we should require PhD students to sit and sour on campus when they're at dissertation phase...but during the seminar phase there is something good and healthy about being present and in a critical environment that breeds deeper thinking, more exposure to perspectives, and lends itself to rigor.

I don't disagree with you at all, however I am saying that we need to consider the realities of what it takes to provide world class online education.

The answer to poorly-executed distance education is distance education well done. And I have yet to hear an anecdote like the one you mentioned about distance ed. that isn't also often the case with our beloved brick and mortar tradition.

Quality distance education can be accomplished at every level. I actually think distance education has a greater potential at the graduate level than at the undergraduate level. Graduate students are better equipped to meet the particular challenges that the medium presents; they have had four years to prepare for it.

As for the PhD; if not pure distance ed. models, I would love to see more in-service programs which require minimal residency (summer and winter seminars) during the coursework phase, making better use of technology.

And I think the writing is on the wall: this is where ministerial training is headed. ATS, et. al., will catch on soon enough.

 

[Siberian]

Thanks for the replies.

Let me explain a bit more....

I have a career as a teacher. This is what I plan to do as a career. I currently serve as a pastor of a local church. This local church is where the Lord has placed me and they are unable to have paid full time pastor. I live in a poverty stricken, low socio-economic area. With that being said, there is no need for me paying thousands of dollars to get a degree that I wouldn't be using as a profession.

Typically the answer will be to "buy a few books," and save money. However, I find it hard to believe that books are better than education, even if the degree is UA. I'm not wanting a diploma mill, but I wouldn't consider LBU a mill. Maybe I am wrong.

I couldn't even afford to pay out of pocket for a tracs school. I'm just looking for an option that is not "buy some books."

I currently have degrees that are ra from three different institutions and have serious, but not outrageous debt.

Thanks

Maybe you could go slow? Enroll in an M.A. program at Liberty and take as few classes as possible (though enough to still meet the program's time limits). Or enroll in Liberty Home Bible Institute, which is cheaper still.

And if a degree is not the issue (and if your are considering a UA school, then the degree is obviously not that important to you), try taking some free or really inexpensive courses at biblicaltraining.org. Any of those options top the training that you could receive at LBU.

 

[PrTeacher10]

I have the MA in theology studies from Liberty

 

[Siberian]

I have the MA in theology studies from Liberty

Sorry, I missed that... and the fact that you are looking into a doctorate, not a master degree.

Have you considered SATS? They are VERY inexpensive compared to US schools. And they are accredited. They have a PhD by research, like the European model. I've heard only good about that program.

 

[PilgrimPastor]

Isn't a major part of this discussion one of pastoral expectations? You have some local church search committees wanting AT LEAST (??????) a doctorate.