Love Alone Saves

[Dr . Bruno VAN de VLIET]

He laid down his life for us because of love. That was the example, that was the teaching. It is a simple concept and you are making it more complicated than it really is.

You think God becoming man is a simple thing? How could you? It is the most complicated issue in all of history. You would like to wipe this away with a simple answer as the main teaching of Jesus is love. The main teaching of Jesus is His teaching not part of it.

 

[Adonia]

You think God becoming man is a simple thing? How could you? It is the most complicated issue in all of history. You would like to wipe this away with a simple answer as the main teaching of Jesus is love. The main teaching of Jesus is His teaching not part of it.

I said his core message was simple. Didn't Jesus himself raise all types of questions about the religious leaders of his day with their endless nitpicking of this or that biblical proclamation? Good grief, they had something like over 613 commands to obey to be acceptable to God.

Jesus brought all that to an end, He brought things to a level that all people could understand and actually accomplish that would allow everyone be accepted by God. The core message of Jesus continues to be love. We are supposed to even love our enemies, remember?

 

[steaver]

Who's will wins out, God's will or man's will? One of the two has to overrule the other? Whose will has authority over the other?

Who's will won out in the Garden of Eden, God's will or man's will? But I do not wish do get this thread into a Calvinism debate. You could begin a thread on God's will verses man's will and begin from the beginning with the Garden of Eden and all of it's players, God, man and Satan. Who's will won out and why?

 

[steaver]

Jesus brought all that to an end, He brought things to a level that all people could understand and actually accomplish that would allow everyone be accepted by God. The core message of Jesus continues to be love. We are supposed to even love our enemies, remember?

Maybe you should declare your position so we can understand were you are coming from with your comments about love. Do you take the position a person's Love Alone saves a person even if that person rejects Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself for the sins of the world?

 

[Adonia]

Maybe you should declare your position so we can understand were you are coming from with your comments about love. Do you take the position a person's Love Alone saves a person even if that person rejects Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself for the sins of the world?

I dare not presume to say what God Almighty will do to any single person on Judgement Day. Can someone who does not claim the mantle of Christian be assured of salvation by nonetheless living a Christlike life? POSSIBLY. PERHAPS. In the end I do not know, that will be God's call.

For me, I am a sinner and have faith in Christ and the forgiveness that I receive from Him. He is my advocate with the Father and the mercy that only He can bestow upon me. My own salvation is my utmost concern, others will have to come to their own conclusions on these weighty issues. I think though that the more love one can show while on this earth, the better off one will be.

 

[utilyan]

I created this thread for the purpose of clarification on what appears to be a Catholic position of salvation based solely upon "Loving thy Neighbour as thy self" apart from any rejecting of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

There has always been a debate between "Faith Alone" and "Faith plus works". But now I have encountered yet another position from the RCC camp which is "Love Alone".

We know the definition of "Faith Alone"; which is Trusting in Jesus Christ's sacrifice for sin, that He was crucified for our transgressions, that He was buried in a tomb, that He was raised to life again the third day, believing He is the Son of God and receiving Him as Lord and God through regeneration (born-again) is how a person is justified and saved APART from any good works which naturally follow the new creation/new heart in Christ.

We know the definition of "Faith plus works"; which is the same as above with the exception that the works and love do not naturally follow out of the new creation/new heart and must be maintained of oneself in order to be justified and saved. At anytime, even after 20 years, one could stop doing good deeds and be lost forever, even though they may have had many years of good deeds prior.

But we now have a new third option introduced here by a few Catholic friends, 'Love Alone".

The definition of "Love Alone" goes like this; A person can reject the above definition of "Faith Alone" and even the above definition of "Faith plus works" and as long as they demonstrate Love as did the good Samaritan Jesus spoke of, they will be justified and saved.

I would like to hear from all the Catholics here on this board. Is this a rogue belief by a few Catholics, or is this the consensus of all Catholics in general?

We have folks in Judaism and Islam who are very loving people, would give you the shirt off of their very backs. Can they reject the above facts about Jesus Christ and still be saved?

In a sense your promoting a Gnosticism if we are required to believe things ABOUT Jesus vs Believing what Jesus taught.

There are folks out there who swear to God that Jesus Christ IS Adolf Hitler in character and spirit. To step back and say well at least these folks BELIEVE in Jesus is a blunder.



You can be an Atheist and still be saved. This hangs easily on God's Mercy who knows if you make a honest mistake.


If you have Love, Agape and love your neighbor, your already backed up by grace. Fact if your love is not backed up by grace its not going to be love at all.


Trying to combat love? Your better off banging your head on a brick wall for progress.

Everyone in heaven and hell, is a catholic your going to know the truth so that is done deal.


Love Alone can work as long someone else isn't defining the term for me.

God Alone = Love Alone. God is Love. You might have well have said "Christianity alone"




The word Love is too powerful, Unless you can butcher the word to mean evil, it absolutely wins.



If a Jew Muslim or Atheist has LOVE, IE AGAPE, they have God on their side they can be saved.


Mark 12

28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ 31“The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” 32The scribe said to Him, “Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NNE ELSE BESIDES HIM; 33AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE’S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions.


"THERE IS NTHER COMMANDMENT GREATER THAN THESE"-- Jesus Christ.




Its easy matter of God the Father vs God the Monster.

I can argue you don't believe God forgives anyone because all wrongs must be "paid for" under a penal system.

If you owe me 100$ and your mom pays me for it, I didn't forgive you at all. For me to actually forgive means I drop the whole thing.



I'm pretty sure crucifying Jesus at the cross was a sin on mankind's part. If I remember correctly Jesus said forgive them rather then hey thanks a lot guys.

Romans 5

10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.



Love is the highest priority. If it wasn't God would not even have bothered to declare sins to be sins.

The Entire focus of Christianity is Love.

1 Timothy 1

5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.




"Trusting in Jesus Christ's sacrifice for sin, that He was crucified for our transgressions, that He was buried in a tomb, that He was raised to life again the third day, believing He is the Son of God and receiving Him as Lord and God through regeneration (born-again) is how a person is justified and saved APART from any good works which naturally follow the new creation/new heart in Christ."

Satan has no problem OKAYING and Believing this, because NOTHING indicates actual allegiance, GOODNESS or loyalty to God.

 

[Yeshua1]

He laid down his life for us because of love. That was the example, that was the teaching. It is a simple concept and you are making it more complicated than it really is.

Jesus died for the glory of God, to save lost sinners and reconcile them back to a Holy God, and the RCC tramples underfoot His precious blood shed for that!

 

[steaver]

I dare not presume to say what God Almighty will do to any single person on Judgement Day. Can someone who does not claim the mantle of Christian be assured of salvation by nonetheless living a Christlike life? POSSIBLY. PERHAPS. In the end I do not know, that will be God's call.

For me, I am a sinner and have faith in Christ and the forgiveness that I receive from Him. He is my advocate with the Father and the mercy that only He can bestow upon me. My own salvation is my utmost concern, others will have to come to their own conclusions on these weighty issues. I think though that the more love one can show while on this earth, the better off one will be.

This position raises a whole bunch of questions.

1) Is this your own personal belief or is this the belief of the Church you claim allegiance to?

2) What is the purpose of you having faith in Jesus Christ if you believe it may not even be necessary for your own salvation? Is it like having a get of hell free card just in case you really do have to have faith in Jesus Christ to be saved?

3) Is only being concerned about your own salvation "Loving your neighbour as yourself"? If the bible is clear that one must trust in Jesus Christ to be saved and you KNOW this, what will you say to your friends and loved ones one day if they find themselves in hell because you did not tell them the truth of what the bible actually said? Is that Love?

4) If you are not sure a person must trust in Jesus Christ for salvation, then how can you be sure even of your own salvation? Either the bible tells you what you must do to be saved or it does not.

 

[steaver]

If a Jew Muslim or Atheist has LOVE, IE AGAPE, they have God on their side they can be saved.

Two questions...

1) Can be saved or are saved? Can be saved sounds like they are eligible but not yet saved.

2) Is this your personal belief or is this what your Church teaches and believes?

"Trusting in Jesus Christ's sacrifice for sin, that He was crucified for our transgressions, that He was buried in a tomb, that He was raised to life again the third day, believing He is the Son of God and receiving Him as Lord and God through regeneration (born-again) is how a person is justified and saved APART from any good works which naturally follow the new creation/new heart in Christ."

Satan has no problem OKAYING and Believing this, because NOTHING indicates actual allegiance, GOODNESS or loyalty to God.

Did you miss the "born-again" part? Do you understand what it means to be born-again? Scripture has defined what it means to be born of God, which by the way an attribute of the new heart includes loving thy brother. I don't know how one can get anymore in actual allegiance with God than having God actually join Himself as one in Spirit, Jesus Christ in you, and you crying ABBA Father. I'm not sure you understand what it means to be born of God.

 

[Adonia]

1) Is this your own personal belief or is this the belief of the Church you claim allegiance to?

The Church preaches salvation in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and I believe the same, but it also recognizes the ultimate authority of God and His infinite mercy. Do you not believe that God can act towards any soul in any way in which He desires?

2) What is the purpose of you having faith in Jesus Christ if you believe it may not even be necessary for your own salvation? Is it like having a get of hell free card just in case you really do have to have faith in Jesus Christ to be saved?

As I said before, I am a sinner and need Him as my advocate to the Father. I am a wimp and need His help to get through this life, so that is the bottom line for me.

3) Is only being concerned about your own salvation "Loving your neighbour as yourself"? If the bible is clear that one must trust in Jesus Christ to be saved and you KNOW this, what will you say to your friends and loved ones one day if they find themselves in hell because you did not tell them the truth of what the bible actually said? Is that Love?

Hey, everyone has the free will to chart their own path. I live my life by the example of living out my faith as best I can and I share that with others I come into contact with. I have found what works and others can and will do as they please - I cannot force anyone to do anything or accept anything.

4) If you are not sure a person must trust in Jesus Christ for salvation, then how can you be sure even of your own salvation? Either the bible tells you what you must do to be saved or it does not.

Like I said earlier, I used the words "possibly" and "perhaps" that others might have salvation if they live out their lives in a Christlike manner. I just don't know what God's ultimate decision would be on Judgement Day concerning them.

As for me being assured of my salvation, I would like to think in a positive way about this, but sometimes it is hard for me to believe that the great sins I have committed have all been totally forgiven. I have been told that this is true over a thousand times and through many years, but sometimes this is too great a concept for me to fathom.

I envy those who have a 100% assurance about this, but I have to be honest about how I feel about the whole thing. I know there is nothing I can do to help along this free and wonderful gift (forgiveness), so in the end, I can only live my life in as Christlike a manner as possible and at the end pray that God will show mercy towards me.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Church preaches salvation in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and I believe the same, but it also recognizes the ultimate authority of God and His infinite mercy. Do you not believe that God can act towards any soul in any way in which He desires?



As I said before, I am a sinner and need Him as my advocate to the Father. I am a wimp and need His help to get through this life, so that is the bottom line for me.



Hey, everyone has the free will to chart their own path. I live my life by the example of living out my faith as best I can and I share that with others I come into contact with. I have found what works and others can and will do as they please - I cannot force anyone to do anything or accept anything.



Like I said earlier, I used the words "possibly" and "perhaps" that others might have salvation if they live out their lives in a Christlike manner. I just don't know what God's ultimate decision would be on Judgement Day concerning them. As for me being assured of my salvation, I would like to think in a positive way about this, but sometimes it is hard for me to believe that the great sins I have committed have all been totally forgiven. I have been told that this is true over a thousand times and through many years, but sometimes this is too great a concept for me to fathom. I envy those who have this 100% assurance about this, but I have to be honest about how I feel about the whole thing. I know there is nothing I can do to help along this free and wonderful gift (forgiveness So in the end, I can only live my life in as Christlike a manner as possible and at the end will pray for God's infinite mercy.

The RCC really reaches that God provided to all the means and grace enoiugh to get saved, but its based upon US and OUR will , and cooperating with grace of God to get right enough to merit Him saving us!

 

[utilyan]

Two questions...

1) Can be saved or are saved? Can be saved sounds like they are eligible but not yet saved.

2) Is this your personal belief or is this what your Church teaches and believes?



Did you miss the "born-again" part? Do you understand what it means to be born-again? Scripture has defined what it means to be born of God, which by the way an attribute of the new heart includes loving thy brother. I don't know how one can get anymore in actual allegiance with God than having God actually join Himself as one in Spirit, Jesus Christ in you, and you crying ABBA Father. I'm not sure you understand what it means to be born of God.

"attribute of the new heart includes loving thy brother"

You want to equate good work of loving neighbor as being born again, that will work for me.

So yeah our "born-again" Samaritan, Jewish, Muslim brothers and sisters.

After all the Good Samaritan was only capable of loving neighbor due to his "attributed new heart."

 

[Yeshua1]

"attribute of the new heart includes loving thy brother"

You want to equate good work of loving neighbor as being born again, that will work for me.

So yeah our "born-again" Samaritan, Jewish, Muslim brothers and sisters.

After all the Good Samaritan was only capable of loving neighbor due to his "attributed new heart."

JUST christians are saved, correct?

 

[utilyan]

JUST christians are saved, correct?

Is the Good Samaritan Christian?

 

[steaver]

Do you not believe that God can act towards any soul in any way in which He desires?

Is this really the question? If God tells us what He is going to do before He does it, and then God does not do what He said He was going to do, but He goes against what He said He was going to do, is this how you view the God revealed in the Scriptures?

As I said before, I am a sinner and need Him as my advocate to the Father. I am a wimp and need His help to get through this life, so that is the bottom line for me.

But why do you believe you need Him for your salvation, but you believe others can reject Him and still be saved?

I cannot force anyone to do anything or accept anything.

Of course not. But if you tell atheist, muslims, friends and family that as long as they show love they will still be saved apart from receiving the truth of Jesus Christ, and this turns out to be false, how will you feel as you watch them thrown in the lake of fire?

I just don't know what God's ultimate decision would be on Judgement Day concerning them.

Then shouldn't you just say you do not know how a person is saved? Should you promote a hope of salvation for anyone if you are not sure how one is saved?

As for me being assured of my salvation, I would like to think in a positive way about this, but sometimes it is hard for me to believe that the great sins I have committed have all been totally forgiven. I have been told that this is true over a thousand times and through many years, but sometimes this is too great a concept for me to fathom.

1) Do you believe the bible is the infallible Word of God?
2) Do you know Jesus Christ is in you?

I envy those who have a 100% assurance about this, but I have to be honest about how I feel about the whole thing. I know there is nothing I can do to help along this free and wonderful gift (forgiveness), so in the end, I can only live my life in as Christlike a manner as possible and at the end pray that God will show mercy towards me.

And I pity those who do not have 100% assurance. Why do they not have assurance? I suggest they do not have 100% assurance because they do not believe the Word of God. Why this is could be they have not ever really trusted in Jesus Christ 100%. They still believe their sins need some sort of purgatory punishment or they need to be good and do enough good deeds. This doubt is tied directly to what Luther finally seen and stood up against. When the Son sets you free you are free indeed!

 

[steaver]

So yeah our "born-again" Samaritan, Jewish, Muslim brothers and sisters.

This does not work for you since being born-again means receiving Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. This is why i believe you do not understand what it means to be born of God. Anyone born of God does not say they reject Jesus Christ, that would be absurd.

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him". (1Jo5:1)

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." (John 3:36)

Do you believe Jesus Christ or not?

 

[Yeshua1]

Is the Good Samaritan Christian?

ONLY Christians go to heaven, correct?

 

[MennoSota]

Who's will won out in the Garden of Eden, God's will or man's will? But I do not wish do get this thread into a Calvinism debate. You could begin a thread on God's will verses man's will and begin from the beginning with the Garden of Eden and all of it's players, God, man and Satan. Who's will won out and why?

Whose will do you think won out? The answer fits perfectly in this thread.

 

[MennoSota]

Is the Good Samaritan Christian?

Is the pope a pagan?

 

[steaver]

Whose will do you think won out? The answer fits perfectly in this thread.

Is it ok with you if it is God's will to give mankind choices and to give mankind a free will of his own to make such choices?